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  • #16
    Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
    Bez,......Every time that You mock the I.D. plate idea,Your position on this matter becomes clearer......and weaker.
    The idea is fine.....mandatory....not so much. Plus, we all get the added bonus it bugs you!
    Bez Auto Alchemy
    573-318-8948
    http://bezautoalchemy.com


    "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bezhawk View Post
      The idea is fine.....mandatory....not so much. Plus, we all get the added bonus it bugs you!
      Does this mean that the 'Beer Summit' is off??

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      • #18
        Heck no! it's all good natured ribbin' . I'd hoist a frothy one with 'ya anytime. (you have to be able to take as well as give).
        Bez Auto Alchemy
        573-318-8948
        http://bezautoalchemy.com


        "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bezhawk View Post
          Heck no! it's all good natured ribbin' . I'd hoist a frothy one with 'ya anytime. (you have to be able to take as well as give).
          Bez,.........As usual, WE AGREE!!!!! (Coors or Bud or????)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
            I know, but cut Him a break.....he clarified His wording.
            I know what he meant- you are the one who sounded confused.

            But in the case of the 'tribute tags' I am confused.
            Wouldn't the stamped s/n be a dead give away that it's not real?
            I mean- I have block 'P100289' out in the shop.
            Let's say I dressed it up to look like an R3 or R4-
            wouldn't one look at that s/n give it away?
            What am I missing?



            StudeDave '57
            StudeDave '57
            US Navy (retired)

            3rd Generation Stude owner/driver
            SDC Member since 1985

            past President
            Whatcom County Chapter SDC
            San Diego Chapter SDC

            past Vice President
            San Diego Chapter SDC
            North Florida Chapter SDC

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            • #21
              Originally posted by StudeDave57 View Post
              I know what he meant- you are the one who sounded confused.

              But in the case of the 'tribute tags' I am confused.
              Wouldn't the stamped s/n be a dead give away that it's not real?
              I mean- I have block 'P100289' out in the shop.
              Let's say I dressed it up to look like an R3 or R4-
              wouldn't one look at that s/n give it away?
              What am I missing?



              StudeDave '57
              You know what He meant now ....but You were 'wandering' a bit back then! As to Your more serious question about "Why not just look on the block for the serial number?" This has been discussed before, but since Your coming into this late, I'll reiterate. (Hey that rhymes!!) To put it as simply as I can for You Dave.....Not everyone who may happen to decide they want to buy a Studebaker in the future may be a 'Studebaker Expert', and this includes knowing where to look to find a Stude engines serial number. For example.....How many times on this forum have You seen someone new give his engines CASTING number thinking he was reading the serial number? Come on now...be honest...How many times have You seen that? And, although I hate to say this, as others have pointed out to Me over the last couple of weeks, serial numbers can be removed and/or changed. An I'D. plate to identify an expensive engine that could easily be represented as something that it isn't (innocently or not) is a good idea. Hopefully, You, and the other 'naysayers',will eventually see this.
              In the meantime, I'll keep hammering away! Thanks for the question Dave.

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              • #22
                I know what he meant- you are the one who sounded confused.

                But in the case of the 'tribute tags' I am confused.
                Wouldn't the stamped s/n be a dead give away that it's not real?
                I mean- I have block 'P100289' out in the shop.
                Let's say I dressed it up to look like an R3 or R4-
                wouldn't one look at that s/n give it away?
                What am I missing?


                That's my stance on it, and to that I say, "Yes!! Sweet Jesus yes!!"
                . There are also a whole host of other ways to figure out if it was an R3 engine. Dropping a lit borescope in the combustion chamber, removing the intake manifold to find the enlarged ports. Looking at the RAISED numbers on the center exhaust port that identifies the heads on the engine. The heads on those engines are different, and use a different set of numbers than the 289/R1/R2 engines. Of course, I dunno about anyone else, but on my Facebook friend's list, few people outside of my little circle know what a Studebaker is, much less what an R3-R4 engine is. They know I work on the cars, they know it's a Studebaker, they like the cars, a few know what an R2 is, but beyond that it's a complete and utter mystery unless they actually get into them. In fact, I had to go into detail with another car guy from my relative's hometown(who also knew Studebaker was sold in their little town all those years ago), about the differences between the 289, R1, R2, R3, and R4 engines, because they were never sold or ordered in that dealership! On that note, most of the folks that I know that are looking for those engines, know a little about what those engines are. I really do have yet to come across an individual who says, "I know almost nothing about Studebaker, or the V8's, but I want an R3-R4 engine!", aside from getting a mystery engine in with a stack of other engines, in a shed someplace.
                1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

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                • #23
                  Was not there only something like 117 pairs of R-3/R-4 heads cast? or am I incorrect in that?

                  Jim
                  "We can't all be Heroes, Some us just need to stand on the curb and clap as they go by" Will Rogers

                  We will provide the curb for you to stand on and clap!


                  Indy Honor Flight www.IndyHonorFlight.org

                  As of Veterans Day 2017, IHF has flown 2,450 WWII, Korean, and Vietnam Veterans to Washington DC at NO charge! to see
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 52 Ragtop View Post
                    Was not there only something like 117 pairs of R-3/R-4 heads cast? or am I incorrect in that?

                    Jim
                    Your question brings out the point of this whole exercise Jim.......Nobody really knows how many heads were cast!! Thank You!

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                    • #25
                      To; PlainBrown R2,---I get what You're saying,....but once again the position You are taking assumes that everyone who may be interested in buying a Studebaker with 'Stude's Hottest Engine' will be a Studebaker engine expert....That just ain't so.....And as time goes on, and these cars inevitably become more valuable,....Your position is even less logical. Why?....Well as Leno would say: More and more of the 'More Money Than Brains Club' will come out of the woodwork at auctions (high and low end), e-bay, craigslist, etc. and want to purchase 'SUPER STUDEBAKERS'.

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                      • #26
                        I believe John's list accounts for every production R3/R4 "B" engines. Interesting that there was one 6 cylinder B block. The 6 cylinder Bonneville car. John also has several "A" block engines on the list. Around 175 engines accounted for. Plus there is all the updates on the list which show some history of how those engines moved around from owner to owner and car to car. I'll ask John for the updates since May and post that list.

                        I have the list in PDF from 2012.
                        Last edited by jlmccuan; 06-16-2013, 03:21 PM.
                        Jim
                        Often in error, never in doubt
                        http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

                        ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jlmccuan View Post
                          I believe John's list accounts for every production R3/R4 "B" engines. Interesting that there was one 6 cylinder B block. The 6 cylinder Bonneville car. John also has several "A" block engines on the list. Around 175 engines accounted for. Plus there is all the updates on the list which show some history of how those engines moved around from owner to owner and car to car. I'll ask John for the updates since May and post that list.
                          That's great info Jim!.....Two things: Please ask John if He's completely confident that His roster encompasses every R3-R4 that Paxton produced. The roster does sound VERY complete, but I'd still like to hear His answer to that question. 2) Whether John's roster is complete or not, We still can't assume that 'Down The Road' a buyer will know where to find John's roster....or that such a roster even EXISTS. No, a conscientious engine builder nowadays needs to add an I.D. plate to identify these 'tribute' R3-R4 engines, and clearly separate them from the 'Real Deal' Thanks Jim

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                          • #28
                            Hehehe, well I'm not going to argue irrationality on a problem that so far hasn't cropped up yet, and I've been around these cars a long time, even going back to the early 90's where even the Studebaker name was a real mystery in of itself out here. If you wanted a period of time where applying plaques to blocks might have been really necessary, that would have been it, because when we'd show our car out here, we'd get put in the "Special Interest" category. Now that was really something, a vehicle with a name going back to the days of the Conestogas, was relegated to the same class of guys who had the kit cars. But, if we need to apply the mark of the Beast, I mean plaques to these here engines that are known among us who've been around the engines, go nuts. I will say that in the years I've been around cars.....GM's, Fords, Chryslers, Hudsons, Packards, Velorex's, AMC's, Deloreans, Pontiacs, etc, that this supposed, potential, future, problem, only exists with these small lot of engines. Frankly, I've seen B-J freakouts from the buyers on any Studebaker(we all remember the 100K Golden Hawk from a years ago don't we?), so the Super Jet Thrust engines aren't any different in this case. The only time I've ever seen data plates used anywhere, is on industrial engines like the railroad diesel electrics, because the units may all look alike, but over the years have had engines replaced, and that federal regulations demand it for things like that.

                            Yeah, we brought that up today. I hear so much about the B blocks, where's everyone who has the 299 cid, or the A blocks?
                            1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                            1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                            1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                            1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

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                            • #29
                              There were only 10 A blocks stamped by Paxton A1-A10.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 View Post
                                Hehehe, well I'm not going to argue irrationality on a problem that so far hasn't cropped up yet, and I've been around these cars a long time, even going back to the early 90's where even the Studebaker name was a real mystery in of itself out here. If you wanted a period of time where applying plaques to blocks might have been really necessary, that would have been it, because when we'd show our car out here, we'd get put in the "Special Interest" category. Now that was really something, a vehicle with a name going back to the days of the Conestogas, was relegated to the same class of guys who had the kit cars. But, if we need to apply the mark of the Beast, I mean plaques to these here engines that are known among us who've been around the engines, go nuts. I will say that in the years I've been around cars.....GM's, Fords, Chryslers, Hudsons, Packards, Velorex's, AMC's, Deloreans, Pontiacs, etc, that this supposed, potential, future, problem, only exists with these small lot of engines. Frankly, I've seen B-J freakouts from the buyers on any Studebaker(we all remember the 100K Golden Hawk from a years ago don't we?), so the Super Jet Thrust engines aren't any different in this case. The only time I've ever seen data plates used anywhere, is on industrial engines like the railroad diesel electrics, because the units may all look alike, but over the years have had engines replaced, and that federal regulations demand it for things like that.

                                Yeah, we brought that up today. I hear so much about the B blocks, where's everyone who has the 299 cid, or the A blocks?
                                Yes, I also remember those 'Special Interest Class' car show days too. I hate to say this, but little by little the people who 'Know this stuff like the back of their hand' are disappearing....and THAT's why We need to 'right now' keep the records straight for future car nuts who may, (or may not), 'Discover' Studebakers. 'TAG THOSE CLONES'!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Whoops...Tributes)

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