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OK, Sleuths: Avanti Body Tag Mystery!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
    A well-known forum member and frequent poster bought it. I imagine he'll be posting to this thread as soon as he sees it. BP
    BP, you are right I just now saw the post and I did buy the car yesterday, will be bringing it home on Tue. to start cleaning and figuring it out, the owner I just bought it from got it in 1976 and never transferred it into his name and when I saw who he got it from in 1976 I said I know this past owner so it is a small world when it comes to Avantis.
    Candbstudebakers
    Castro Valley,
    California


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    • #32
      My 1970 had body # RQ-4921
      64 GT Hawk (K7)
      1970 Avanti (R3)

      Comment


      • #33
        I have 1964 Avanti R5388, body RQ4307, PO written 9/23/1963.

        34 Studebaker Street Rod (completed)
        55 Speedster (in work)
        63 Lark R2 (completed, 63K miles)
        64 Daytona CNV (completed, 63K miles)
        64 Avanti R2 (completed)
        85 Avanti(blackout trim, 10K miles)
        89 Avanti CNV (19K miles)

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        • #34
          I have R 5636 with body # RQ 4370. Rob in PA.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
            Your question suggests we've uncovered a transition period, Bob, where the last bodies made in Ashtabula were interspersed with the first bodies made in South Bend. If this is true, virtually all the last 800 or 900 Studebaker Avantis would have body numbers over 5000.
            Is this true? I don't know, so we'll see if anyone else does.

            Does anyone have a late Avanti, with a serial number in the last 800 or 900 made, that has a body number under 5001? BP

            Don't overlook the re-serialized (very) early '63's that were sold late in the production run.

            Craig

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            • #36
              Quote from G. Krem note: "My guess is that some assembly line or body line Studebaker employee grabbed a handful of body numbers that were completely out of sequence, but they just went ahead and used them, since they thought they would eventually use even higher numbers than that." and Bob Pa. supported it.

              This shows that even you two do not have all of the answers, even with a little "research".

              Please refer to my unedited post number 10 and some posts of others that support the two series of body numbers for Studebaker assembled Avantis (101 start for MFG bodies and 5001 start for Studebaker bodies).
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

              Comment


              • #37
                I was able to purchase Nate Altmans Molded Fiber Glass Company correspondence file last year at South Bend last year. YES IT IS OFFICIAL CORRESPONDENCE FILE.
                It has many interesting tidbits which I hope to share in Avanti Magazine starting with issue #163. One piece is extremely intriguing its titled Molded Fiber Glass Body Company Bodies Received - Processing Paid.
                It lists the Date Rec'd - Invoice Number - Amount and most importantly Body Number.

                The first transaction is Dated March 1, 1965 MFG Invoice 3620 for $200.00 covered Body RQ #4423 which became RQA 0003, Body RQ#4588 which became RQA 0002. Two bodies $100.00 a piece not a bad deal. There are 74 bodies listed purchased form March 1, 1965 -November 23, 1965. I have taken the list one step further and using factory build sheets translated which body became which production car. For the record MFG body RQ 4572 became RQA 0001.

                There is on rhyme or reason as the body numbers assigned (as evidenced by RQA 0001 thru RQA 0003) are not sequential and no body numbers assigned were over RQ 5000.

                More to come.
                John Hull

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by studegary View Post
                  Quote from G. Krem note: "My guess is that some assembly line or body line Studebaker employee grabbed a handful of body numbers that were completely out of sequence, but they just went ahead and used them, since they thought they would eventually use even higher numbers than that." and Bob Pa. supported it.

                  This shows that even you two do not have all of the answers, even with a little "research".

                  Please refer to my unedited post number 10 and some posts of others that support the two series of body numbers for Studebaker assembled Avantis (101 start for MFG bodies and 5001 start for Studebaker bodies).
                  Gary, I have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing in your Post #10 contradicts what we had posted. If you have further documentation on this discussion (not just more conjecture), please post it. George said he GUESSED what happened is the conclusion he drew, not that he "had all the answers."

                  Further, as for this illustrating that neither cousin George nor I have all the answers, I'd ask you to cite somewhere where we say we DO have all the answers! Neither of us have ever made that claim to the best of my knowledge...I certainly never will, and I will speak for George and say that I doubt he ever will, either.

                  George has a wealth of knowledge he could share with the forum, but he participates infrequently at best, as do several other people with an enormous amount of material they could share. The tone of your Post #36 might help explain why their contributions are sparse in proportion to what they could contribute; who would intentionally expose themself to such unwarranted wrath? BP
                  Last edited by BobPalma; 06-03-2013, 01:19 PM. Reason: Added last paragraph; it needed to be said!
                  We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                  Ayn Rand:
                  "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                  G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                    Gary, I have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing in your Post #10 contradicts what we had posted.

                    Further, as for this illustrating that neither cousin George nor I have all the answers, I'd ask you to cite somewhere where we say we DO have all the answers! Neither of us have ever made that claim to the best of my knowledge...I certainly never will, and I will speak for George and say that I doubt he ever will, either.

                    [/B]
                    My post states that there were a different series of body numbers for MFG and Studebaker Avanti bodies. George guessed that the body numbers were just randomly pulled for usage, across a very large spread of numbers. I see this as two very different things.

                    I think that you read the other part with a different meaning than what I intended. I was simply stating that you and George fall in with the rest of us in making mistakes and being human and not knowing everything. I know that George has a lot more Studebaker Avanti information than I have. I MAY have more post-Studebaker Avanti information, but far from all and nowhere near what John H. has.
                    Gary L.
                    Wappinger, NY

                    SDC member since 1968
                    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by studegary View Post

                      I think that you read the other part with a different meaning than what I intended. I was simply stating that you and George fall in with the rest of us in making mistakes and being human and not knowing everything.
                      And that's probably as close to a public apology as we'll ever see, too, even though it really isn't one.

                      Your statement, "This shows that even you two do not have all of the answers, even with a little "research" sure doesn't come off the way you "explained" it, Gary, especially with quotation marks around the word research. BP
                      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                      Ayn Rand:
                      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Avantict View Post
                        I was able to purchase Nate Altmans Molded Fiber Glass Company correspondence file last year at South Bend last year. YES IT IS OFFICIAL CORRESPONDENCE FILE.
                        It has many interesting tidbits which I hope to share in Avanti Magazine starting with issue #163. One piece is extremely intriguing its titled Molded Fiber Glass Body Company Bodies Received - Processing Paid.
                        It lists the Date Rec'd - Invoice Number - Amount and most importantly Body Number.

                        The first transaction is Dated March 1, 1965 MFG Invoice 3620 for $200.00 covered Body RQ #4423 which became RQA 0003, Body RQ#4588 which became RQA 0002. Two bodies $100.00 a piece not a bad deal. There are 74 bodies listed purchased form March 1, 1965 -November 23, 1965. I have taken the list one step further and using factory build sheets translated which body became which production car. For the record MFG body RQ 4572 became RQA 0001.

                        There is on rhyme or reason as the body numbers assigned (as evidenced by RQA 0001 thru RQA 0003) are not sequential and no body numbers assigned were over RQ 5000.

                        More to come.
                        Thanks, John; please do. Obviously, additional non-conjecture material would be welcome here!

                        (Please try to stay away from post-Studebaker Avantis, though; we've got enough questions just trying to unravel Studebaker Avantis!) BP

                        We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                        Ayn Rand:
                        "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                        G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I think the topic and lack of historical records makes this a very difficult subject. I think all can agree it is extremely intriguing. I have been chasing Avanti information for a number of years as has most who try to tackle this subject. The upside is giant baby steps and information ultimately shows up to help in the quest. For example the Lamberti files to Dick Quinn and Nate Altmans MFG file to me. These files contain information not seen in years if ever. I for one admire the work of all who labor in this quest and share the information with the Studebaker National Museum. I remember a conversation with Asa Hall where I called him an "expert" he stopped me and said he was just "knowledgeable" there were no Studebaker experts just knowledgeable people.

                          So what do you make of the information I uncovered about Avanti Motors and MFG body connection?
                          John Hull

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Everything I've seen in the file so far indicates MFG just replaced Studebaker with Avanti Motor Corporation. The "systems" including body tags probably would have been the same. As a matter of fact there is correspondence from Nate referencing problems that Studebaker had with MFG bodies that were continuing on the bodies delivered to AMC. I believe the first 74 Avanti II's were in essence Studebaker bodies assembled,finished the same way with the same MFG systems. I don't believe you can separate the two when a great deal of commonality might exist. Just my two cents.
                            John Hull

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Just a gawl dang'd minute, did I loose my "Atta Boy" award in all this fallderall? I ain't no expert, just a guesser, but still, them "Atta Boy"s are hard to come by... Oh well, whogabra?
                              Corley

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                              • #45
                                I just re-checked, and my R5634 has body RQ 4430, which only means WHAT??? Yup! I think they just had a handful of numbers and plopped them on the cars at random.

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