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How important is a matching # engine?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 8E45E View Post
    If one were to do a graph of the importance of 'matching number' cars, it can rate from 'low' to 'very high'.

    A six cylinder automatic Blue Mist '63 Lark 4 door where the original engine was seized and replaced with another similar engine would no doubt rate 'low', but The Whistler with its factory order status and subsequent racing provenence would of course rate 'very high'.

    Craig
    That is an Excellent point and example.

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    • #32
      So I think we are saying the high end cars, the engine # madders and the low end cars it does not. I would agree with that. I have a 59 Studebaker pickup that has a replacement engine in it and I am very happy with that, but I also have the original engine which I decided would cost to much to rebuild at this time. I like having the original engine. I have taken the pickup to a few shows (non Studebaker show) and no one has ever ask me if it had the original engine and most of the time it wins a trophy. My 62 Hawk, I tried to find the original motor but could not find it. So that was when I decided to build up the R-1 that belongs to the Cruiser. I am kind of a stock kind of car guy, but because I could not find the original motor I was going wild and put a R-1 with 5 speed in and disc brakes. I also restored a 1966 Corvette and received NCRS Top Flight award two times and to them numbers were every thing. I also know that in the Corvette world some have restamped the engine number. What do you think about doing that. My truck has no engine number on it I could stamp a number there, ( I would not do that ), What do you think about restamping and what about rebody a car? thanks for all the in put. Terry

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TMAN0950 View Post
        So I think we are saying the high end cars, the engine # madders and the low end cars it does not. I would agree with that. I have a 59 Studebaker pickup that has a replacement engine in it and I am very happy with that, but I also have the original engine which I decided would cost to much to rebuild at this time. I like having the original engine.
        If its a Scotsman with a V8, its very rare!

        Craig

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        • #34
          Hi Craig, mine is a Deluxe.

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          • #35
            This is one thread that a poll would have been interesting....

            This thread is so full of "ifs" it make a head spin....

            "If" it is a truly rare item....maybe.
            "If" the buyer is willing to pay a premium...definitely.
            "If" the owner is a truly responsible Studebaker historian....maybe.
            (You could substitute "anal" for "responsible Studebaker historian" and it would still be....maybe)
            "If" one were use matching numbers to bring the auction level hype for premium selling dollars....maybe.

            But....
            Stude's rarely generate the hype at auctions that the magazine popularity driven cars and trucks do.
            Most Stude buyers are CASO's and want it all matching, but won't pay the premium price addition.
            Heck, it was Stude types that took the engines out of those Stude's in the first place.

            My opinion?
            On historical cars... Sure.
            Aunt Bee's Lark is a perfect example.
            The matching serial number adds at least a hundred bucks in value to a Lark that's $15,000+ over valued.
            Just an opinion...
            Jeff
            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

            Jeff


            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
              "If" it is a truly rare item....maybe.
              IF only I saved my '61 Cruiser I parted out back in 1979! Had I know how rare they are, I would have kept it.

              Craig

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              • #37
                This is a timely discussion for me. I have a very nice 64 Avanti with the original engine. It did have a problem with low oil pressure which turned out to be worn main bearings/journals - definitely repairable. About a year ago, I acquired a 'P' engine built by Nimish Solanki from a friend of mine (he decided to go the LS1 route). The 'P' engine is now a 308 with the Ford 6 cylinder forged pistons, a roller cam, roller tipped rockers, ported heads with r3 valves, r3 headers, LS r3 manifold (thanks again Jeff for fixing it for me), an R3 airbox, and of course a Paxton blower (unfortunately it's a SN89). My question is: do I repair and install the original R1? install the 308? keep the r1 block and move some of the 'speed' parts to it? When does it stop being the original engine? I have some time to make this decision as I decided to spruce up the engine bay before re-installing the engine. But, I would rather do this once! I really need some advice.
                78 Avanti RQB 2792
                64 Avanti R1 R5408
                63 Avanti R1 R4551
                63 Avanti R1 R2281
                62 GT Hawk V15949
                56 GH 6032504
                56 GH 6032588
                55 Speedster 7160047
                55 Speedster 7165279

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                • #38
                  64studeavanti, $-wise, it makes more sense to rebuild the original motor for the 64. My 2 cents into the game is to keep the car original. If the car is not original when it comes into your hands, then other options are available for you. If you are interested in more money for the car when its time to part with it, originality will get you more bucks. Of course you can always pull the motor, hanging on to it and putting the 308 in and enjoying it until you want to go back to original. Your car, your toys and money, your decision.
                  sigpic[SIGPIC]

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                  • #39
                    Unfortunately, after fifty years, a nice original '64 R1 still doesn't bring big bucks on the open market. A new Solanki-built R3 clone engine is worth at least half as much as a nice R1. For most potential buyers, having that installed and properly sorted would definitely increase the resale.

                    Again, unfortunately, it wouldn't increase the net as much as the two separately. A seller would net more for the original R1 car and the built engine sold individually. That's not taking into account the labor to install and the expertise to tune the modified engine.

                    I deal with this all the time on my own cars/trucks and those engines I build for others. We do it for the fun of it, not because we expect to profit on the resale.

                    jack vines
                    PackardV8

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                    • #40
                      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.........deleted
                      Last edited by bezhawk; 04-21-2013, 11:25 AM.
                      Bez Auto Alchemy
                      573-318-8948
                      http://bezautoalchemy.com


                      "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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                      • #41
                        It's unfortunate, but with very few exceptions, our Studes do not attract the general collector. So we we kind of trade around a closed community - with the occasional newbie. My wife and I joke (sometime seriously) that if we sell with the Avanti, we could get more from it in parts than we could get selling it complete. I agree, that these cars are not investments, but a hobby and as such one shouldn't expect to profit. I guess that I'll just sleep on it some more and make a call. In any case, I will keep the original engine just in case.
                        78 Avanti RQB 2792
                        64 Avanti R1 R5408
                        63 Avanti R1 R4551
                        63 Avanti R1 R2281
                        62 GT Hawk V15949
                        56 GH 6032504
                        56 GH 6032588
                        55 Speedster 7160047
                        55 Speedster 7165279

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by WCP View Post
                          In my opinion, engine numbers are not that significant. Keep in mind that the number only identifies the original block and blocks can be changed for whatever reason. The important issue is whether the complete engine is technically correct for that specific car. I believe there are several R and JT engined cars that have had block changes and thus lack the R or JT identification but have all of the original internal and external kit and are every bit as valuable as a "number matching" equivalent. When buying a car, you can't take things at face value. You have to do your own research.
                          And the research would certainly be much easier for the prospective buyer if the replacement (or "Tribute") block were 'tagged' indicating what's been done (or NOT done) to it!!

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                          • #43
                            I think it may have been said earlier, but, with a few words, the answer is: "It depends on the buyer". If I were buying, it would mean a great deal to me. If some others were buying, maybe,not so much.

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