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2-Dr V8 Frame

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  • 2-Dr V8 Frame

    I have a 64 6 cylinder Commander. My understanding is the 6 cylinders used a lighter duty frame than the V8. As I'm planning on running 400HP thru the drive train, should I source a V8 frame?
    Tom - Bradenton, FL

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
    1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

  • #2
    I don't believe there is any difference in a 6 cyl frame and a V8. I had heard at one time that convertible frames were a thicker gauge material too, but think of the production problems from having several different frames to chose from and the building of them.
    sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
    1950 Champion Convertible
    1950 Champion 4Dr
    1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
    1957 Thunderbird

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by thunderations View Post
      I don't believe there is any difference in a 6 cyl frame and a V8. I had heard at one time that convertible frames were a thicker gauge material too, but think of the production problems from having several different frames to chose from and the building of them.
      Oh there is a difference, Stude passenger car frames ranged from 14 to 11 gage, with the heavier frames being used on V-8 cars and 6 cyl station wagons and convertibles as well.
      Jim
      I was STUDEBAKER, when STUDEBAKER wasn't "KOOL".

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      • #4
        There was a thread here about different thicknesses-seamed factual as someone did the research. I don't remember the details though. Swifster,have you tried to do a search?
        Oglesby,Il.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 52hawk View Post
          There was a thread here about different thicknesses-seamed factual as someone did the research. I don't remember the details though. Swifster,have you tried to do a search?
          If you happen to have a shop manual, the gages are also listed there by model.
          Jim
          I was STUDEBAKER, when STUDEBAKER wasn't "KOOL".

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          • #6
            There was a rumor that mid seventies Avantis were assembled using the last of the original Stude frames which had been in storage outside for years at that point, and were mainly 6cyl versions
            with the X-member added.

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            • #7
              Tom

              With 11 ga = 0.1196 and 14 ga = 0.0747 nominal it wouldn't be difficult to measure the thickness at a hole in the frame. My mid-70's 1974 Avanti has a 11 ga frame not 14 as I've added a fair amount of 1/8" plate and repair to the frame and it is a good match in thickness to the 11 ga.

              As a thought though, before changing out the frame, look into stiffing it like the Avanti as that member is capable of supporting the Mackinac Bridge I think. There have been some posts on the forum about strengthening the frame with steel tubing as well as examples available of Morrison and other chassis available on the web to illustrate how they did the reinforcing.

              Also remember that the Stude frame stiffness depends on the body being part of the structure so steel shims/conveyor belt rubber body mounts bolted down well will also help.

              Good luck with the 400 HP setup, it hard to have too much go.

              Bob

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              • #8
                There are differences. I used to doubt that until I took some vernier calipers into a wrecking yard that had 30-some Studes in it (sadly, long gone now). My measurements and comparisons dismissed my doubts. The parts books do not reflect these different gage frames, but that's cause it was simply easier to only stock ONE frame for ALL applications of a given body style. Naturally, the heavier gage frames were the ones stocked for replacement. I've wondered just how many replacement frames there was ever call for. Convertibles - whether 6 or V8 - used the same frame since as much stiffness as was possible was required for droptop bodies.
                No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

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                • #9
                  I stand corrected, Thanks guys. It's nice to learn something new. I'd heard that convertible frames were heavier, but thought the torque boxes made all the difference. Live and learn, forget and learn it again.
                  Originally posted by thunderations View Post
                  I don't believe there is any difference in a 6 cyl frame and a V8. I had heard at one time that convertible frames were a thicker gauge material too, but think of the production problems from having several different frames to chose from and the building of them.
                  sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
                  1950 Champion Convertible
                  1950 Champion 4Dr
                  1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
                  1957 Thunderbird

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
                    There was a rumor that mid seventies Avantis were assembled using the last of the original Stude frames which had been in storage outside for years at that point, and were mainly 6cyl versions
                    with the X-member added.
                    I had a 70's era Avanti II in my shop years ago for a collision repair, and it had a cut down station wagon frame under it. So, yes, there was a time the Altman's were using up old inventory.
                    Jim
                    I was STUDEBAKER, when STUDEBAKER wasn't "KOOL".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The commonly used original 1959-1964 Chassis Parts Catalog is dated September, 1963, on the first page inside the cover. But at the bottom of the page listing frame assemblies (p. 426), it says "Revised 3-64". Not all the information on that page agrees with the information about frames in original period shop manuals, probably because of consolidation and simplification of the parts supply as time went on. The frame information about '64 models in the original 1959-64 Shop Manual shows that 64S-F models (six cylinder/2-door sedans) had the lightest frames: 14 gauge. All others had heavier gauge frames (11 or 13), according to the shop manual.

                      George
                      george krem

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by R3 challenger View Post
                        The commonly used original 1959-1964 Chassis Parts Catalog is dated September, 1963, on the first page inside the cover. But at the bottom of the page listing frame assemblies (p. 426), it says "Revised 3-64". Not all the information on that page agrees with the information about frames in original period shop manuals, probably because of consolidation and simplification of the parts supply as time went on. The frame information about '64 models in the original 1959-64 Shop Manual shows that 64S-F models (six cylinder/2-door sedans) had the lightest frames: 14 gauge. All others had heavier gauge frames (11 or 13), according to the shop manual.

                        George

                        The '65-66 Shop Supplement shows 13 gauge frames in all two-door sedans, six or eight, for '65 and '66. My '66 had had the frame around the spring pockets welded during restoration and was beginning to crack on one side again, about 11K miles later.

                        Someone had posted previously (I think) that the Shop Manual shows 13 gauge frames for '60-62 wagons.
                        Bill Pressler
                        Kent, OH
                        (formerly Greenville, PA)
                        Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
                        Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
                        1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
                        1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
                        All are in Australia now

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                        • #13
                          The '62-'64 Four Door Sedans, 2 and 4 Door Wagons, Wagonaires, Hardtops and Convertibles 6 or 8's got 11 Ga. frames.

                          The 2 Door Sedans being the lightest Models got the lightest frames, some years 13 and some years 14, on 6 Cyl. pretty much what George said.

                          Even Hawks got increased in '62 to 11 Ga. All Avanti Powered "F" body 2 Dr.'s were SUPPOSED to get 11 Ga. frames like the H.D. Sedans, Police and Taxis.
                          StudeRich
                          Second Generation Stude Driver,
                          Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                          • #14
                            If they used up all the left over frames in the 70s, What's under my 81? Did they build new Lark frames?
                            Neil Thornton

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                            • #15
                              Well, I believe by at least '82 Avanti Motors was fabricating complete frames by hand, utilizing left over Studebaker crossmembers.

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