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Are Pontiacs the "Studebakers" of the future?

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  • #16
    Ceterus Parabus-All other things being equal.
    If I want to change the frame to a Chevy, chances are its already there.
    My 1st car. "A TRANSTAR"

    Starliner
    sigpic
    Somewhere between Culture and Agriculture
    in the Geographic center of Tennessee

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    • #17
      "Are Pontiacs the "Studebakers" of the future?"

      I don't see a Detroit warehouse squirreling Pontiac parts the way Newman & Altman and Standard Surplus did Studebakers. There are no contemporary marques that will approach the legacy of Studebaker. We, as a club, are a unique moment in time. Embrace it.
      "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

      Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
      Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
      '33 Rockne 10,
      '51 Commander Starlight,
      '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
      '56 Sky Hawk

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
        I'd like to see US companies succeed, however.

        Bottom line for me on this thread...vintage Pontiacs (pre 70's) have been and probably always will always be collectible. MORE so than Studebakers (check current pricing). I don't think their orphan status will effect this in any way, however.
        Agreed on some things Dick. The NYSE and the price of GM Stock will sort the truth out on GM's situation eventually. I hope GM recovers from it's drop in stock price to the current less than $20 to more than the $35 IPO price. We could all use a shot in the arm right now.

        I'd still rather have an Avanti or Hawk than a Trans-Am, but I'm in the minority. Pontiac, may it rest in peace, if that was indeed the best move. Like you say, the current production status has little to do with collectability of past models. I just don't think Pontiac will ever have the same mystique and exclusivity as Studebaker.

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        • #19
          Seeing the many Grand Ams and Grand Prixs on the road every day makes it difficult to accept that Pontiac is no more. These two models had a sporty-looking image and were very popular with the under 40 crowd as they did not look bland or boring like the offerings from Chevrolet. I suppose the problem is that the replacements for the Grand Am and Grand Prix (the G6 and G8) either didnt have the styling buyers were looking for or, as I believe is the case for the G8 is that the prices were too high. It makes sense that GM had to charge more for the G8 being it was shipped all the way from Australia, but it doesnt make sense that GM would replace the Grand Prix with a car that cost much more.
          sigpic
          In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Milaca View Post
            Seeing the many Grand Ams and Grand Prixs on the road every day makes it difficult to accept that Pontiac is no more. These two models had a sporty-looking image and were very popular with the under 40 crowd as they did not look bland or boring like the offerings from Chevrolet. I suppose the problem is that the replacements for the Grand Am and Grand Prix (the G6 and G8) either didnt have the styling buyers were looking for or, as I believe is the case for the G8 is that the prices were too high. It makes sense that GM had to charge more for the G8 being it was shipped all the way from Australia, but it doesnt make sense that GM would replace the Grand Prix with a car that cost much more.
            The irony was I never cared for the 1990's up Grand Am or Grand Prix because of their 'gingerbread' trim.
            --------------------------------------

            Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

            Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

            "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

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            • #21
              No way. Not even close. Pontiac was just a subsidiary of a monster company.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
                The market just wasn't buying badge engineering and something had to go...it wasn't going to be Chevrolet or Buick.

                I'm also having a hard time with "market share" as the most important measure of a company's viability. Certainly the US automakers missed the boat when the market grew from essentially just North America and Europe to the WHOLE world, AND when they underestimated the quality and depth of offerings that Asian companies could bring, AND when they stopped listening to customers and built what THEY wanted to build, but GM isn't doing too badly. Certainly if GM had taken foreign competition seriously, realized it's a big world out there, and built what their customers were asking for, they would probably have an even bigger market share. But here's an analogy...

                The real measure of a company's success is of course profits. GM is making money for the first time in a LONG time. They are doing something right for the first time in a LONG time (which may include things like skinning down their brands AND reducing their dealerships number to be more in line with their competition). I wish them the best.
                I've stated before, badge-engineering does not work, and BMC was a classic case of it; marketing at least six different marques on one body shell at one point a good thirty years before, and GM could have learned from it.

                Another factor, and a major reason of GM's declaring "bankrupcy" was its pension obligations to former and current workers.

                Both GM and Ford were global companies long before the Asian car companies started to market their products around the world. At least Toyota did it with just two or three cars which had the same engines and interiors, etc., regardless where in the world they were sold, while GM and Ford had several different platforms in North America, England, and Germany. Ironically, GM was the first to have a 'world' platform with its T-body Chevette, and Ford followed suit with the Escort, but their engines and interiors were totally different for each market which almost negated the economies of scale for having a worldwide platform.
                Craig
                Last edited by 8E45E; 07-16-2012, 01:06 AM.

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                • #23
                  IIRC, I have owned Pontiacs from 1966 models through 1980 models.

                  Isn't the Pontiac G8 the new Chevrolet PPV police car that is to become a retail customer item?
                  Gary L.
                  Wappinger, NY

                  SDC member since 1968
                  Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by studegary View Post
                    IIRC, I have owned Pontiacs from 1966 models through 1980 models.

                    Isn't the Pontiac G8 the new Chevrolet PPV police car that is to become a retail customer item?
                    Could the G8 be considered Pontiac's Avanti? Looks like what you say is true, Gary:

                    http://blog.caranddriver.com/tags/ch...t-caprice-ppv/

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                    • #25
                      Bring back a sporty two-door coupe, other than a Camaro. The 1997-2002 Grand Prix GT and GTP coupes were great looking and great performing cars. Bring them back!
                      sigpic
                      In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by studegary View Post
                        IIRC, I have owned Pontiacs from 1966 models through 1980 models.

                        Isn't the Pontiac G8 the new Chevrolet PPV police car that is to become a retail customer item?
                        Close. The 2011+ Chevy Caprice is the 'Studebaker Y body' version of the G8 (longer wheelbase with more rear seat room).
                        --------------------------------------

                        Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

                        Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

                        "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Milaca View Post
                          Bring back a sporty two-door coupe, other than a Camaro. The 1997-2002 Grand Prix GT and GTP coupes were great looking and great performing cars. Bring them back!
                          Remember that the lack of demand killed off most 2 door anything in cars................I suspect the extended cab pickups replaced them, as it were.
                          --------------------------------------

                          Sold my 1962; Studeless at the moment

                          Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

                          "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Around these parts, pontiac grand pri's and grand am's were pretty popular with the folks in the their 20s and early 30s. More of them around I think that Buicks for sure, and maybe chevrolets as well. Still see quite a few but I am sure they are going to fade away quickly. Hardly see any of the later oldsmobiles any more except for alero's. Seems to me if they were looking to axe a brand from looking at poor sales only around here that Buick would be the one on the short list instead.

                            Most of the younger folks (men at least) prefer to drive 4dr crew cab 4x4 pickups. Even extended cab pickups are getting rare in the new lots. Regular cab probably would be special order! The few late cameros I see occasionally belong mostly to women. Minivans have been replaced mostly now by crossover SUV's that the wife drives while the husband has a 4dr 4x4 pickup.

                            The local dodge/chysler dealer recently got in about a dozen of those fiat 500s maybe 2 months ago. I have yet to see one driving around. Small cars don't sell well around here. Even small fords or other more common makes are rare.

                            Jeff in ND

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                            • #29
                              For the most part, Pontiacs were generic GM stuff, and many years only a nameplate or trim piece different from other GM cars.

                              Studebakers were made of Studebaker parts. A Studebaker is, well, a Studebaker.

                              Like DeSoto, Lasalle, and other generic makes, Pontiac will be missed by only a small hard-core group.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jnormanh View Post
                                Pontiac will be missed by only a small hard-core group.
                                I think you could replace "Pontiac" with "Studebaker" and describe the 13,000 member SDC
                                Dick Steinkamp
                                Bellingham, WA

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