Originally posted by Deaf Mute
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
The possible asnwer to why no photos exist of the '53 Sunroof car or the '63 Turtle
Collapse
X
-
This evening I thought of a possible connection that would make the Avanti/Chrysler story plausible. When Studebaker stopped Avanti production they looked to others to pick up production of the Avanti. I know that American Motors (AMC) was considered, but I do not remember if Chrysler was considered. If Chrysler was considering picking up production of the Avanti, this may have been a reason to buy someones Avanti to evaluate since they were no longer able to buy a new one (unless they got left over stock from a dealer). This is when Neuman-Altman picked up the production of Avanti from Studebaker. This is a bit of a stretch, but a possible connection between Avanti and Chrysler.
Leave a comment:
-
About the Avanti/Mustang refrence.
I have been told that some automotive magazine ran an interview with Lee Iacoca and he stated that he had a full size drawing (or photo) of an Avanti taped on the wall in Ford's design studio and told the engineers there that this was the design he was searching for... (for the future Mustang)...
I have looked for that magazine, but have not been able to find it. Also.. ever notice how Mustang wheel covers have a hint of the Avanti look ???
Studebaker was first by far with a pony car!!!
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 View PostFine, you have 50 years of archived literature to locate a check stub that may or may not have found its way to a wastebasket and a cut up Avanti bought by a couple men from Chrysler Corp. My friend has also been gone for about 2 years, so if you wanna ask, by all means, but don't expect an answer. There's a whole lotta of this stuff that the regular public doesn't know about, or pays attention to. So what, it's contrary to public perception, ask me sometime about things they do in the national lab system, the public is blind and deaf to what they know about that too, but oh, it's contrary to public perception, that's right, my bad. So, since he had a longstanding career in racing and working with Studebakers, gee, I guess I'll have to accept his side from the stuff he did.
Originally posted by 8E45E View PostIf Chrysler truly did buy his Avanti from him, it would have been for a different reason; not to use as a 'mule' for the Barracuda. As Gary correctly stated, the Barracuda came out in early 1964, a week before the Mustang, actually. The plant closed in December, 1963, which would have only been 4 months or so before the Barracuda came out; a much too short time window to still be searching for ideas and then get a car into production.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 View PostOur late neighbor, had an Avanti he purchased after the plant had closed. I cannot recall the details, but one day he got a call from the boys at Chrysler Corporation, they wanted to buy his car for "study". I cannot remember if agreed to it or not, but a few years later, the Barricuda came out, and it appeared to have some of the Avanti design influences incorporated into the car, in particular that nice, large, backglass. Now, if the preproduction designs for the Avanti came out for the Avanti, before the Avanti actually came out, then that might have given Chrysler the upper hand in building their own Avanti, and denying Studebaker the opportunity we have today. This kind of corporate espionage was not only prevalent during Studebaker production, and continues until this day, it was even prevalent after the doors had closed, because it was a unique and hot design!
Craig
Leave a comment:
-
Fine, you have 50 years of archived literature to locate a check stub that may or may not have found its way to a wastebasket and a cut up Avanti bought by a couple men from Chrysler Corp. My friend has also been gone for about 2 years, so if you wanna ask, by all means, but don't expect an answer. There's a whole lotta of this stuff that the regular public doesn't know about, or pays attention to. So what, it's contrary to public perception, ask me sometime about things they do in the national lab system, the public is blind and deaf to what they know about that too, but oh, it's contrary to public perception, that's right, my bad. So, since he had a longstanding career in racing and working with Studebakers, gee, I guess I'll have to accept his side from the stuff he did.
Leave a comment:
-
I've visited the archives when they were still stored in the old brick bldg on Franklin(?) Street. And since we get treated to the odd old factory or engineering photo from time to time - I'd like to know if anyone who would KNOW a significant find of a photo - has ever looked thru ALL of the photos IN the archives. Are there things hyet to be discovered or just yet to be widely published? Is Andy Beckman - or other informed researchers - methodically going thru what there is or has that already been done??? Anybody know - for sure???
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 View PostNo, he's taking Studebaker's history as face value as whatever major things that happened in history is really what happened in history, and none of the minor details that led up to that moment seem to matter. He doesn't know him, doesn't want to know about this stuff from other people behind the driver's seat, he doesn't care about the minor behind the scene things that occurred elsewhere in the country at the time Studebaker was in production. He doesn't want the little details involved that gave rise to things like the Barracuda's backglass. He's telling this to a guy that knew him since about 1993, and his stories never changed in the time that I met him. They came to him because he posted the car for sale as a private owner, but they never told him who they were until after they gave him the check from Chrysler Corporation. It was uncommon to do something like this either. It didn't involve a parade of brass coming to your door, just a couple of guys who saw an opportunity to pick up a car for real cheap. If he'd done his research, he'd also know Studebaker sponsored the West Chicago racing group he was in, which is how they came to ordering the R3, before they got "the call" that Studebaker was shuttering automobile production. Of course if he wants to rewrite the unpublished little stories over the years that I got from our friend that I knew personally, then that makes it far harder to believe what Gary is telling me.....that's unacceptable.
[/INDENT]
Leave a comment:
-
This is what happens when you take things at face value without stepping back and having a reality check. You are simply telling us a second hand story which you are unable to authenticate, whereas Mr. Lindstom has indicated when the model was introduced and the lead time needed to put it into production. Why would Chrysler come to your "friend" when they could send an employee to a dealership and buy the car directly? We all know how time blurs facts and think of all the things we have been told at cars shows about the marque that are incorrect.
Can't support your "story" on this one...
No, he's taking Studebaker's history as face value as whatever major things that happened in history is really what happened in history, and none of the minor details that led up to that moment seem to matter. He doesn't know him, doesn't want to know about this stuff from other people behind the driver's seat, he doesn't care about the minor behind the scene things that occurred elsewhere in the country at the time Studebaker was in production. He doesn't want the little details involved that gave rise to things like the Barracuda's backglass. He's telling this to a guy that knew him since about 1993, and his stories never changed in the time that I met him. They came to him because he posted the car for sale as a private owner, but they never told him who they were until after they gave him the check from Chrysler Corporation. It was uncommon to do something like this either. It didn't involve a parade of brass coming to your door, just a couple of guys who saw an opportunity to pick up a car for real cheap. If he'd done his research, he'd also know Studebaker sponsored the West Chicago racing group he was in, which is how they came to ordering the R3, before they got "the call" that Studebaker was shuttering automobile production. Of course if he wants to rewrite the unpublished little stories over the years that I got from our friend that I knew personally, then that makes it far harder to believe what Gary is telling me.....that's unacceptable.
Leave a comment:
-
This is what happens when you take things at face value without stepping back and having a reality check. You are simply telling us a second hand story which you are unable to authenticate, whereas Mr. Lindstom has indicated when the model was introduced and the lead time needed to put it into production. Why would Chrysler come to your "friend" when they could send an employee to a dealership and buy the car directly? We all know how time blurs facts and think of all the things we have been told at cars shows about the marque that are incorrect.
Can't support your "story" on this one...
Leave a comment:
-
The Barracuda came out as a 1964 model, so the design work on it had to be long before the South Bend Studebaker plant was closed. Cute story, but doesn't hold water.
Leave a comment:
-
And to really put it in perspective - we are lucky to have all the photos and documentation that have survived.
When doing research in the archives in 1996, I heard when the City of SB, and then Syracuse University was looking after what was left, a lot of things went missing, were taken, or simply disappeared. Thankfully we still have what has remained - and so lucky to have someone like Andy Beckman to look after things.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by showbizkid View PostJames Nance did the same thing when he took over Packard - had the archives destroyed. Poor move, and short-sighted for any corporation. But I guess when you're shutting down a division, you never think that someday someone might want to see all that stuff -- at that point it's just a lot of paper.
Leave a comment:
-
It wasn't uncommon for car makers to buy examples of competitor's cars, but the body for the Barracuda was clearly based on the existing Valiant...in fact the early Barracuda carried Valiant badges along with the Barracuda emblems. To have seen the back glass and rear side window design of the Avanti in 1962 gave more than sufficient time to adopt those design cues for a car introduced in 1964. That was a relatively simple thing for Chrysler stylists to do. The AMC Tarpon which the Marlin was based on, carried the same design cues and is contemporary to the Barracuda, though the Marlin was introduced a bit later.
There are few coincidences in the auto world. The Avanti design pre-dated the Mustang long hood, short rear deck appearance by two full years, but it was marketed to a different audience. No one remembers that...the Mustang is credited with the "pony car" look. It was successful and wildly so...it gets credit. The Avanti gets a footnote in history.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 View PostI have a somewhat odd story to relate. Our late neighbor, had an Avanti he purchased after the plant had closed. I cannot recall the details, but one day he got a call from the boys at Chrysler Corporation, they wanted to buy his car for "study". I cannot remember if agreed to it or not, but a few years later, the Barricuda came out, and it appeared to have some of the Avanti design influences incorporated into the car, in particular that nice, large, backglass. Now, if the preproduction designs for the Avanti came out for the Avanti, before the Avanti actually came out, then that might have given Chrysler the upper hand in building their own Avanti, and denying Studebaker the opportunity we have today. This kind of corporate espionage was not only prevalent during Studebaker production, and continues until this day, it was even prevalent after the doors had closed, because it was a unique and hot design!
Leave a comment:
Leave a comment: