The possible asnwer to why no photos exist of the '53 Sunroof car or the '63 Turtle

[Roscomacaw]

I've visited the archives when they were still stored in the old brick bldg on Franklin(?) Street. And since we get treated to the odd old factory or engineering photo from time to time - I'd like to know if anyone who would KNOW a significant find of a photo - has ever looked thru ALL of the photos IN the archives. Are there things hyet to be discovered or just yet to be widely published? Is Andy Beckman - or other informed researchers - methodically going thru what there is or has that already been done??? Anybody know - for sure???

[PlainBrownR2]

Fine, you have 50 years of archived literature to locate a check stub that may or may not have found its way to a wastebasket and a cut up Avanti bought by a couple men from Chrysler Corp. My friend has also been gone for about 2 years, so if you wanna ask, by all means, but don't expect an answer. There's a whole lotta of this stuff that the regular public doesn't know about, or pays attention to. So what, it's contrary to public perception, ask me sometime about things they do in the national lab system, the public is blind and deaf to what they know about that too, but oh, it's contrary to public perception, that's right, my bad. So, since he had a longstanding career in racing and working with Studebakers, gee, I guess I'll have to accept his side from the stuff he did.

[8E45E]

Our late neighbor, had an Avanti he purchased after the plant had closed. I cannot recall the details, but one day he got a call from the boys at Chrysler Corporation, they wanted to buy his car for "study". I cannot remember if agreed to it or not, but a few years later, the Barricuda came out, and it appeared to have some of the Avanti design influences incorporated into the car, in particular that nice, large, backglass. Now, if the preproduction designs for the Avanti came out for the Avanti, before the Avanti actually came out, then that might have given Chrysler the upper hand in building their own Avanti, and denying Studebaker the opportunity we have today. This kind of corporate espionage was not only prevalent during Studebaker production, and continues until this day, it was even prevalent after the doors had closed, because it was a unique and hot design!

If Chrysler truly did buy his Avanti from him, it would have been for a different reason; not to use as a 'mule' for the Barracuda. As Gary correctly stated, the Barracuda came out in early 1964, a week before the Mustang, actually. The plant closed in December, 1963, which would have only been 4 months or so before the Barracuda came out; a much too short time window to still be searching for ideas and then get a car into production.

Craig

[Guido]

Fine, you have 50 years of archived literature to locate a check stub that may or may not have found its way to a wastebasket and a cut up Avanti bought by a couple men from Chrysler Corp. My friend has also been gone for about 2 years, so if you wanna ask, by all means, but don't expect an answer. There's a whole lotta of this stuff that the regular public doesn't know about, or pays attention to. So what, it's contrary to public perception, ask me sometime about things they do in the national lab system, the public is blind and deaf to what they know about that too, but oh, it's contrary to public perception, that's right, my bad. So, since he had a longstanding career in racing and working with Studebakers, gee, I guess I'll have to accept his side from the stuff he did.

This has turned into a he said versus we said and without any evidence on your part I am afraid that most will just consider it another story. However, I would encourage you to do some research on the lead time necessary from design conceptualization until the product appears on a dealer's showroom floor. With that knowledge in hand, work back from the introduction date of the 'Cuda (April 1, 1964 IIRC) and see if your timeline works. Sadly, I think you will come to the same conclusion that we have reached.

If Chrysler truly did buy his Avanti from him, it would have been for a different reason; not to use as a 'mule' for the Barracuda. As Gary correctly stated, the Barracuda came out in early 1964, a week before the Mustang, actually. The plant closed in December, 1963, which would have only been 4 months or so before the Barracuda came out; a much too short time window to still be searching for ideas and then get a car into production.

Thank you...

[Deaf Mute]

About the Avanti/Mustang refrence.
I have been told that some automotive magazine ran an interview with Lee Iacoca and he stated that he had a full size drawing (or photo) of an Avanti taped on the wall in Ford's design studio and told the engineers there that this was the design he was searching for... (for the future Mustang)...
I have looked for that magazine, but have not been able to find it. Also.. ever notice how Mustang wheel covers have a hint of the Avanti look ???
Studebaker was first by far with a pony car!!!

[studegary]

This evening I thought of a possible connection that would make the Avanti/Chrysler story plausible. When Studebaker stopped Avanti production they looked to others to pick up production of the Avanti. I know that American Motors (AMC) was considered, but I do not remember if Chrysler was considered. If Chrysler was considering picking up production of the Avanti, this may have been a reason to buy someones Avanti to evaluate since they were no longer able to buy a new one (unless they got left over stock from a dealer). This is when Neuman-Altman picked up the production of Avanti from Studebaker. This is a bit of a stretch, but a possible connection between Avanti and Chrysler.

[Chris_Dresbach]

Studebaker was first by far with a pony car!!!

Quote of the day right there, I like that!!