How's this for a descriptive Avanti eBay listing (not)?

[jeds55]

WOW!!!
Thanks 53K

[SN-60]

Without being able to examine every Studebaker Avanti in the serial number range of, say, 4700 thru 5000, the question of how many transition model Avantis were built cannot be accurately answered. Truth is,
even the production orders for this group may not reveal those details.

[53k]

To complicate the distinction between 1963 and 1964 Avantis, this is what Studebaker Automotive Sales Corporation said:

[Bob Langer]

I've heard that a very few post serial number R4892 cars were equipped with round headlights, but have seen no proof of that.

Here is one and if you go to Bob Johnstone's website you will see more.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1...4986x1210.html

[SN-60]

To: studegary,----------- Something just occured to Me (Dawn breaks over marblehead!) Wondering if a '64 Avanti, orderered with round headlights, would still have the second cowl grille as a 'normal' '64 would have?
I would think that a '64 Avanti ordered with round headlights would indeed have that second cowl grille due to other '64 design considerations. Would You not agree? This Avanti, (R-4943), was definitely built
with the '63 round headlights and only a single cowl grille (like a true '63). Although this car has the '64 console features, it does not (obviously) have console ventilation as a true '64 would. This is why I feel that this
Avanti should to be considered a transition model, even though it was assembled fifty one cars after R-4892.

[studegary]

I don't know the accuracy of the information on Studebaker-info.org, but according to that site these changes didn't start to be implemented until serial 4709.
Harvey

I don't know where this S/N (4709) came from. There WERE some running changes throughout production. 4709 would be mid-June 1963 production. I believe that the end of 1963 production is defined as the end of June 1963 with S/N 4807. The 30 Avantis built in July 1963 are considered to be transition models. The first square headlight bezel was 4892, but it is known that later S/Ns had round headlight bezels.

[studegary]

I've always understood that the round headlight option for '64s was to be only until stock of round headlight body panels was used up. Whether it ever was is an open question and since Avanti production stopped soon after, it's a moot point. I've heard that a very few post serial number R4892 cars were equipped with round headlights, but have seen no proof of that.

I guess it's one of those fun debates but it really solves nothing beyond the exercise of debating it.

I ASSUME that a search of the build sheets should show if a 1964 Avanti was built with optional round headlight enclosures. I don't know if this was done when George K. did his Avanti study that led to the SNM booklet of Avanti facts.

[gs-xnr]

I don't know the accuracy of the information on Studebaker-info.org, but according to that site these changes didn't start to be implemented until serial 4709.
Harvey

To: studegary,--- Well, it was (is) a round headlight car without the extra cowl grille. (As a '63 would appear externally). The interior is all black, with the pirates buckles on the door panels. The dash and console have the factory '64
quasi-woodgrain, and the vent control knobs are round. It also has the improved 1/4 window latches, metal grips in door armrests, and late style interior door lock knobs. The steering wheel and column are brown, But the wheel is not
'woodgrain' as a true '64 would have. This car is in good shape (last time I saw it). Has been repainted a few times, but never hit hard or modified in any way. What do You think?

[Gunslinger]

I've always understood that the round headlight option for '64s was to be only until stock of round headlight body panels was used up. Whether it ever was is an open question and since Avanti production stopped soon after, it's a moot point. I've heard that a very few post serial number R4892 cars were equipped with round headlights, but have seen no proof of that.

I guess it's one of those fun debates but it really solves nothing beyond the exercise of debating it.

[studegary]

Please keep in mind that round headlight bezels could be ordered right through the 1964 model year. I wonder if the build sheet reflects this.
Also, many Avantis have gone from round to square and square to round in the past 48 years.

The cowl vent, improved quarter window latches, etc. are major items identifying it as a 1964.

[SN-60]

To: studegary,------ The above car was always registered as a '64. Also, I've always beiieved the number of Avanti transition models encompassed more than thirty vehicles, But I wouldn't know the 'start' and the
'end' serial numbers either. I'm not sure that anyone does!

[SN-60]

To: studegary,--- Well, it was (is) a round headlight car without the extra cowl grille. (As a '63 would appear externally). The interior is all black, with the pirates buckles on the door panels. The dash and console have the factory '64
quasi-woodgrain, and the vent control knobs are round. It also has the improved 1/4 window latches, metal grips in door armrests, and late style interior door lock knobs. The steering wheel and column are brown, But the wheel is not
'woodgrain' as a true '64 would have. This car is in good shape (last time I saw it). Has been repainted a few times, but never hit hard or modified in any way. What do You think?

[studegary]

To: jeds55,------- A Friend of mine owns R-4943, which is definitely one of them.

That is quite a few after the first with square headlights. It was built about mid-way through August 1963 production. Why do you call it a transition model?

[studegary]

Is there a range of #'s that cover the "transitional" Avanti models?????

I believe that there were 30 transition models, but I can't come up with serial numbers.

I think that it was the 30 that were built in July 1963, S/Ns 4808-4837.

[SN-60]

To: jeds55,------- A Friend of mine owns R-4943, which is definitely one of them.