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R3 Avanti?

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  • SN-60
    replied
    To: WCP,------------- I wasn't quite getting exactly how that strap should be installed---then You posted a picture of the install, ('one picture says a thousand words'), THANK YOU. I have suitable steel strap and am going to install
    this weekend (have a '63 with p/w).

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  • WCP
    replied
    To move the upper door hinge in, the 4 fastener locations on the hinge need to be laterally slotted so the position on the cowl can be adjusted inward. The factory used shims on the door pad if the door needed to be moved outward. Slotting the hinges gives a much better means of aligning the door with the fender surface.
    The weak fibreglass at the hinge to door mount pads is common to all Stude Avantis. Avanti Motors at some point began re-enforcing the pad area with fibreglass board, as described previously.

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  • plwindish
    replied
    I had a round headlight '64 that had an issue with the top hinge on the driver's door. It did not have power windows, so I think the weak hinge attachment area was a problem with quite a few of the Avanti's. The door never did lie flush with back of the left front fender. It stuck out about a good quarter of an inch on the upper half of the door. It leaked when it rained and developed a good air leak at high speed. I never did get it fixed during the 3 years I had the car.

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  • WCP
    replied
    This shows the correct position of the steel strap or bar
    Attached Files

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  • WCP
    replied
    No - I wouldn't weld. Simply replace the 3 existing fasteners with ones slightly longer to accommodate the strap thickness. The fibreglass region between regulator and midpoint pivot is placed under tension and compression as the window is moved up and down. It is the compression that causes the inner panel to bow inward towards the car interior. This flexing eventually leads to fracture of the inner part of the fibreglass profile between the door opener remote and pivot. The strap should be stiff enough to resist that flexing.
    When I restored my current Avanti, I re-enforced the door hinge pads with 1/4" thick pieces of fibreglass bonded to the backside of the inner panel where the captive plate cages are mounted. While doing that, I also bonded similar pieces inside the inner panel profile where flex failure usually occurs, to provide additional rigidity between pivot and regulator. Because of that I didn't add the steel straps to this car. This car has power windows and that operate satisfactorily with what I consider usual slight hesitation at mid-point on the up-cycle ( the regulator springs are a bit tired).

    The strap ties the pivot to the door latch remote. I used 2 of the fasteners of the pivot and 1 fastener of the latch remote actuator. I'll try scanning the photo and post it this evening. Since the strap is not painted, it tends to blend in with the door panel fibreglass. Incidentally, this particular repair is on a very very late '64 Avanti with manual windows. You should be able to see the white lines of the fracture of the door inner panel.

    I don't have pictures of the re-enforcement with fibreglass "board" on my own car but I may still have the patterns for the hinge pads and centre re-enforcements.
    Last edited by WCP; 02-02-2012, 09:21 AM. Reason: Corrected Information

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  • SN-60
    replied
    To:WCP,---------- I'm interested in Your idea of attaching the midpoint pivot to the regulator frame to relieve stress on the fiberglass. Would You elaborate on that a bit more? Would You weld the pivot base
    and the regulator frame to the strap? Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • LarkTruck
    replied
    I have seen stress cracks on non power window doors, but I've never seen one broken out like the power regs will do. You guys up north must be strong!!!!! This area was also beefed up by the factory on later cars.
    Jim

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  • WCP
    replied
    I have to disagree. The panel breaks at the pivot area does occur on manual crank window Avantis. The same window raising stresses on the inner door panel occur with either means of operation. I've repaired a couple of manual window Avantis with this problem. If the window does not move up and down smoothly without binding, then you are likely to see this problem.
    When restoring an interior, it is a good idea to replace the door panel cardboard with 1/8" tempered hardboard (Masonite). This provides some additional support to keep the inner panel from flexing inward, contributing to breaks. Mechanically attaching the midpoint pivot to the door opener remote, will take the stress off the fibreglass. An 3/16" thick length of strap held by 2 fasteners at the pivot and 1 at the remote will accomplish this.
    Last edited by WCP; 02-02-2012, 09:14 AM. Reason: Correcting description

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  • LarkTruck
    replied
    Originally posted by Warren Webb View Post
    My #1 Avanti has the door hinge problem on the drivers side (feb 63 production). The power window problem is a separate one, correct? I would also like to see how you fixed this Jim. Can you also send me your info?
    In answer to both Warren and sbca96, yes, the doors breaking out at the window regulator area is a separate problem on power window cars only. The hinge area fix I have is one that was in AOAI Magazine years ago, which uses 1/4" steel plates inside the door between the hinge bolt nut plate and the fiberglass. I have probably done this modification on at least a dozen cars, even ones that were not yet broken, as a preventative measure. I believe I have enough extra plates to do both doors on two more cars, and can have my fab guy make more if interest warrants.
    Jim

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  • sbca96
    replied
    Mine does not have power windows, were the hand crank ones unaffected?

    Tom

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  • Warren Webb
    replied
    My #1 Avanti has the door hinge problem on the drivers side (feb 63 production). The power window problem is a separate one, correct? I would also like to see how you fixed this Jim. Can you also send me your info?

    Leave a comment:


  • JDP
    replied
    Originally posted by satdoc2 View Post
    I talked to the seller again and decided to possibly keep it and sell one of the other Avantis I own. I always wanted to inspect first hand some of the work done by JDP.
    Allem
    I think you are making the right choice. A rebulit R3 clone drive line should be worth almost your bid. Even if it was a much worse car than I recall, you could still flip it at a profit. It looks like he did dump a lot of money in it in the last seven years.

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  • gs-xnr
    replied
    I will take it if you don't want it. If you keep it what Avanti do you have to sell? I'm serious. Thank you. Harvey

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  • satdoc2
    replied
    I talked to the seller again and decided to possibly keep it and sell one of the other Avantis I own. I always wanted to inspect first hand some of the work done by JDP.
    Allem

    Leave a comment:


  • SN-60
    replied
    Yes, it seemed like even when they were only a few years old, '63 Avantis equipped with power windows had problems. And when that upper hinge area let go, everything else happened---- a car that
    REALLY leaked in the rain, wet carpets, chipped paint, gouged door strikers, mold, etc. I believe many early Avantis (with p/w) were 'driven into the ground' because of this problem--several owners just gave up back then.

    Leave a comment:

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