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The Lamberti papers #19

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  • The Lamberti papers #19

    Richard Quinn
    Editor emeritus: Antique Studebaker Review

  • #2
    One thing I've taken away from all these meeting notes, is how poorly Avantis really sold and the many quality issues with them.
    Bill Pressler
    Kent, OH
    (formerly Greenville, PA)
    Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
    Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
    1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
    1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
    All are in Australia now

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    • #3
      5. Israel.
      Amongst my Studebaker Philatetelic items is an illustration of the Studebaker Assembly Plant at Haifa showing '63 models on the assembly line. The postcard appears to have been issued by the Israeli Postal Authorities.

      \"QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER\"
      MELBOURNE.

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      • #4
        The cats and dogs always seems to never get completed on time!
        Tom
        sigpic

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        • #5

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          • #6
            Thanks again Richard for the on-going revelations.

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            • #7
              Interesting discussion or horsepower. Seems like the actual horsepower of the engine was flexible number!
              Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

              40 Champion 4 door*
              50 Champion 2 door*
              53 Commander K Auto*
              53 Commander K overdrive*
              55 President Speedster
              62 GT 4Speed*
              63 Avanti R1*
              64 Champ 1/2 ton

              * Formerly owned

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              • #8
                ddub
                It was quite flexible with all manufacturers. The horsepower race of the 60's along with ever more stringent insurance rules caused many to understate the true horsepower. They could just pick the horsepower from the dino chart and publish that.
                Ron Husak
                Ron Husak
                Conifer, CO
                Living at 9200 feet and lovin it!
                63 avanti R2 63R-2648

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ronhusak View Post
                  ddub
                  It was quite flexible with all manufacturers. The horsepower race of the 60's along with ever more stringent insurance rules caused many to understate the true horsepower. They could just pick the horsepower from the dino chart and publish that.
                  Ron Husak
                  Exactly...while manufacturers may not have actually underrated their engines, they did play with the numbers at different rpm. On some engines they might say 400 hp at 5000 rpm, they didn't say the horsepower was 450 or more at say 6000 rpm. I'm making those numbers up but it is illustrative of what was being advertised for insurance purposes.

                  The Chevy big block L88 engine was rated at 430hp...the reality was it put out far more at a different rpm than it did for 430hp. My '69 Corvette has an L71 engine rated at 435hp. It was common knowledge that taking off the factory exhaust and adding headers and less restrictive mufflers the engine would easily do in the 500hp range. And does anyone really believe the Chrysler 426 Hemi only put out 425hp?
                  Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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                  • #10
                    The pricing discussion re: the dealers and discounts is very interesting which involves the Robinson-Patman Act!!! Thank you Mr. Quinn.
                    1957 Studebaker Champion 2 door. Staten Island, New York.

                    "Education is not the learning of facts, but the training of the mind to think." -Albert Einstein

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                    • #11
                      Another great installment. Thankyou Richard for taking the time to put these out for us to read
                      1962 Champ

                      51 Commander 4 door

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                      • #12
                        "STAFF MEETING – May 13, 1963

                        2. ’64 Hawk Identity

                        Mr. Hardig remarked that we now have the word “Studebaker” on the back of the Hawk and asked if we should add the word “Hawk” behind “Studebaker,” or go back to the ring with the Hawk emblem inside. Mr. Bender replied that since we are using script on the rest of the models, he thought we should have the word “Hawk” in script to represent the series. The script will be released."

                        This excerpt as an example is significant to me in that I know the exact date as to when a design/production decision was made. Specifically, I now know that the decision to place a 'Hawk' namplate on my 1964 Hawk was made in this meeting on May 13th, 1963. That to me is an interesting piece of trivia!
                        sigpic
                        In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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                        • #13
                          Very Interested to see that "SHIPMENTS" , are now back on track after the anomaly
                          of the figures presented in the previous Lamberti Report . Someone must have just
                          used numbers that were proven to be wrong . No comment of course in the Meeting.

                          I don't think that Studebaker did themselves any favours in respect to their policy of
                          not nailing down the right HP ratings for each of the 'R' rated engines . It is obvious
                          that the Media and the Public wanted to know and when it came to Drag Racing at
                          a National Level , it was difficult for Officials to correctly place the cars in a Category.

                          Thanks again Richard for keeping this series going . A now essential part of history .

                          CRUISER .

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                          • #14
                            By the same token, do you actually think an R-1 only put out 240BHP? And BTW if so at the flywheel or the rear end???
                            Originally posted by Gunslinger View Post
                            Exactly...while manufacturers may not have actually underrated their engines, they did play with the numbers at different rpm. On some engines they might say 400 hp at 5000 rpm, they didn't say the horsepower was 450 or more at say 6000 rpm. I'm making those numbers up but it is illustrative of what was being advertised for insurance purposes.

                            The Chevy big block L88 engine was rated at 430hp...the reality was it put out far more at a different rpm than it did for 430hp. My '69 Corvette has an L71 engine rated at 435hp. It was common knowledge that taking off the factory exhaust and adding headers and less restrictive mufflers the engine would easily do in the 500hp range. And does anyone really believe the Chrysler 426 Hemi only put out 425hp?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hawklover View Post
                              By the same token, do you actually think an R-1 only put out 240BHP? And BTW if so at the flywheel or the rear end???
                              Back then manufacturers were advertising gross hp rating...on a test stand with no exhaust, pulleys or accessories that account for parasitic loss. I would expect the ratings were measured at the flywheels. Even today when you buy a crate engine they're measured in gross hp rather than net since the manufacturer doesn't know what kind of car it will end up in or what kind of accessories or exhaust will be connected.

                              If the R1 was putting out 240 gross hp, the net hp was probably 15-20% less. And not all engines are created the same...while any manufacturer may have made sure their engines put out the advertised hp, some made more...just the variations that inevitably occur between individual engines on the line.
                              Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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