Excellent Info RE: E-10 fuel & additive

[JRoberts]

Thanks Bob, but the nearest place to buy this stuff is 130 miles away. Is there any other stuff that will do this? I just found that there is a little bitty garage about six miles from me that sells "High Test" with no ethanol (Regular is E10). This is perfect for the R1 engine in my Champ. Of course when I go very out of town I am out of luck.

[Corvanti]

from a post a few months ago:

Where to find 100% Pure Gasoline with no ethanol

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[okc63avanti]

Don't blame the oil companies for the ethanol in gasoline .... its there because of EPA regulations (and very active lobbying efforts by Archer Daniels Midland) that forced ethanol on refineries. Prior to ethanol MTBE (Methyl tert-butyl ether) was used to raise octane and as an oxygenate to improve gasoline combustion to reduce air emissions. The problem with MTBE is that is highly miscible with both water and gasoline and as such was showing up in ground water when tested, so the EPA banned MTBE.

Guess who caused the refineries to use MTBE in gasoline in the first place, you got it the EPA. The EPA has caused several different formulations for gasoline to be required for different states, climates, seasons and altitudes because it theoretically reduce volatile emissions by a few parts per million. This has caused the oil industry to spend 100's of billions in capital to custom blend all these boutique gasoline formulas to meet the regulations.

And we all know who ultimately pays for it .... all of us at the gasoline pump !!!

[MRHawkes]

You could be correct. But then again, the oil companies spend millions on additive packages and advertising them. Seems if it were as simple as a bottle of whizbang juice, some company would step up and do it and get a lot of good publicity.

Your snake oil, your money, your decision.

jack vines

I will also play the sceptic part here. Let me ask here on the Forum: How many of you have had the problems that were written about in the article by Ed Syrocki?

I do find the topic interesting and I do want to keep the old cars around as long as possible. Earlier this season I did have problems with the Silver Hawk. Some were fuel related (Carb rebuild), some were not (Distributor rebuild). I have changed to a higher grade fuel this year before reading this article. I do believe that it may still be up to 10% ethanol. As for the additives I currently use: Lead additive in the fuel every 2 or 3 tanks, and ZZDP in the oil, because it came highly recommended by someone who had an engine go boom.

What are your experiences with these types of additives and/or the Soy products, over the long haul? Anyone not using a darn thing, with no problems at all? Could it really be a money grab for another additive company.

[Corvanti]

i use zddp in the oil (30w non-detergent), the only "additive" i use.

i also installed a "see-through" fuel filter in an unseen area - i'd worry more about old dirty/rusty fuel tanks being a problem...

and if i didn't drive my car at least every 3 to 5 days year round, i'd throw some sta-bil in the tank.

with that said, i do think ethanol is a problem for our older cars, and i try to fill up with pure gas when i'm on the other side of town where it can be purchased.

[whacker]

I have used E-10 a couple of times in my 1951 Commander. Within a month of using it both times, my electric fuel pump died, as the bellows in it was not compatible. I have switched to an in-line fuel pump that is compatible (says so on the box). I have also gone to a complete stainless steel fuel line and two fuel filters. I replaced all the rubber hose in the fuel system with fuel injection hose. I should be able to use E-10 now, but I will continue to buy the straight stuff as long as it is available. I still worry about the gaskets in my WCFB, which hasn't been rebuilt yet. I use Rotella-T CI-4 15W-40 oil, as I got a real good price on gallons of it last year.

[studeski]

Fortunately I have a place 10 miles from me that sells non-ethanol premium.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Maybe that's why my dailey driver 259 Lark runs so................

Yes...it runs just fine on a dose of out of the pump, California fuel. I buy Union 76 (E-10) most of the time. Funny though...like I said, it runs just fine thru an Edelbrock carburetor and stock mechanical pump.
And my 54 Conestoga...same there, OEM carburetor...even an electric fuel pump, runs just fine (except the wimpy power output..!).

Every so often, I'll put a bottle of Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner in to help keep things clean (yes, I know it works).

The alcohol won't hurt things untill it gets a few more percentage points higher.
The sky isn't falling just yet...!
Or am I doing something wrong..?

Mike

[PackardV8]

FWIW, my area has had 10% ethanol for probably 15-20 years. My '55 E12 had the original fuel tank, lines, pump and carburetor. Other than a 5-10% drop in fuel mileage, there were no noticed problems from then to now.

jack vines

[jnormanh]

I belong to a British car club with about 80 members who own 140 cars, all of them built before 1980, and many built before 1960. Some of these cars are not driven much, but some are still driven every day, including a 1977 MGB with 340,000 miles (one engine rebuild so far). There might be one or two exceptions, but as far as I know, they are all running on E10, except for one Tiger which is on AvGas due to a 12:1 compression ratio. There have been none of the dire problems so often talked about due to E10. I'd also note that, AFAIK, nearly all are running modern motor oils without ZDDP or any other additives in the oil. I run my '59 Sprite on E10 and regular motor oil, as I did with an MGB and a Lotus Elan, all without problems.

[Bob Andrews]

Part 2 of Syrocki's article:

http://www.historicvehicle.org/Latest-News/September-2011/2011/09/22/Under-hood-ethanol-classic-car

[nels]

If you don't think ethinol has had any effect on your car, just take the tank sender out and put your finger through the hole in the tank and feel the tank ceiling. You will find it is all rust. Alcohol absorbs water just as standard brake fluid does. Regular brake fluid contain alcohol, that's why the cylinders corrode. I can imagine what the alcohol is doing to all the aluminum, dye cast, etc components. I've noticed fuel lines getting stiff quickly on all my Studes and I know the fuel system problems are scary even if the car is just stored in the garage. A line could start weaping or rupture over the winter and who knows what could develope from that. I know it is our EPA behind all this but I don't see their rational. The cars use more fuel to go the same distance when using ethinal based fuel and it takes four gallons of ethinol to produce one gallon of sellable product. Then we pay more at the grocery for corn based food do to the shortage
As for the bottle remedies; I do question them. I always like to know how they work before I'm a believer. I think (?) Sta bil puts an oil or wax in the product that is lighter than gas and forms a film on the surface preventing evaporation while stored. It also prevents the water from getting into the fuel as long as the surface tension is not broken which only occurs when the car is not in motion.
I hate to say it but I think we are screwed on this one.

[Bob Bryant]

So then, is this how to best store my Studebakers for 6 months- full gas tank with this additive? Or something else for storage?

Sta-Bil is used in the E10 in my Studebaker. It used to be recommended that stored vehicles in winter storage have a full tank before ethanol. What is the current wisdom? Thanks

[Corvanti]

i wouldn't have a problem doing that, but drive it around so the sta-bil gets into the fuel lines, carb, etc. and not just sitting in the gas tank.

[sweetolbob]

Sta-Bil is used in the E10 in my Studebaker. It used to be recommended that stored vehicles in winter storage have a full tank before ethanol. What is the current wisdom? Thanks

I would believe that is still the best advice. The more gasoline in the tank the less air/oxygen to do the dastardly deeds. Oxygen is one of the major causes of the bad things that happen to stored gasoline.

Bob