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Most ridiculous thing you'll see all day. Sunbeam towing Avanti.

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  • #46
    I happened to sit down by my son tonight as he was watching "fail" videos on the internet. This one appeared during the few minutes I watched. I thought it might illustrate what some folks have been saying on this thread.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is0h-...&feature=email

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    • #47
      Originally posted by studefan View Post
      I happened to sit down by my son tonight as he was watching "fail" videos on the internet. This one appeared during the few minutes I watched. I thought it might illustrate what some folks have been saying on this thread.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is0h-...&feature=email
      OUCH! Note how "long" the trailer sways before the bright stop lights come on, indicating some braking is taking place. BP

      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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      • #48

        Exactly my point all along, demonstrated right there.
        Proud NON-CASO

        I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

        If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

        GOD BLESS AMERICA

        Ephesians 6:10-17
        Romans 15:13
        Deuteronomy 31:6
        Proverbs 28:1

        Illegitimi non carborundum

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Milaca View Post
          I agree that the electric brake controllers don't have an ideal hand control for independently applying the trailer brakes as they are very tiny and must be slid sideways for actuation. This differs from large air-brake straight trucks used for pulling air-brake tag trailers as they are available with a hand lever just below the steering wheel, configured like a turn-signal lever but to the right-side of the steering column. For a few years I drove my dad's 1982 L-9000 Ford tandem axle gravel truck with this independent air-brake controller for the trailer brakes and it would have been very easy to apply had an emergency ever arisen. Something similar could be done for electric brakes if a manufacturer chose to do so. A hand lever mechanism that would fasten/clamp to the right-side of the steering column.

          Hmmm, maybe I need to see a patent attorney about this.....
          People have gotten wealthy with ideas nowhere near that good, Brent.

          Go for it! BP


          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          Ayn Rand:
          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

          Comment


          • #50
            I have towed some heavy loads with a short light weight vehicle. The secret is a custom trailer that has a long draw bar. with the load correctly positioned to give enough traction I have never had a problem. The long draw bar dampens any tendency to sway. Think to the semi trailer with the wheels at the back and what is effectivly a very long draw bar to the fith wheel.

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            • #51
              I did a rather thorough search on the Internet again and could not find any sellers of the Warner pedal or even old pedals. Not even the Warner website lists the part although it does list the manual, Automatic Brake Foot Controller. I noticed too that Instruction Sheet had relatively new date but it still uses a fixed resistor type system. Not electronic. Which doesn't make sense. The resistor system is an old technology and awkward to use. The problem I had with the resistor system is that it provided five levels of braking. Not infinite like electronic. This is the reason I modified my pedals to control the electronic controller back in the early 70's. I'm at a complete loss as to where to acquire these pedals. It looks like anyone who wants to be serious about this type of control will have to fabricate one on their own. I'd be gad to coach anyone through it if they want to do it. Unless of course, Milaca is inspired to patent and market a unit.

              Pardon my soap box, but I've been preaching the need for foot controllers for trailer brakes for years. It provides leading and additional trailer braking to pull tension on the towing vehicle instead of having it push the tow vehicle, especially when at an angle to each other. None, and I mean none of the under dash controllers provides that ability. In fact they make it worse because they fail to apply additional braking when the tow vehicle is at an angle to the trailer, just when it is needed the most. It is the trailer pushing the tow vehicle or being in a neutral load state that starts the swaying. Once started, it is amplified and will not stop until the trailer is pulled in tension with the towing vehicle. The video studefan posted is a great example of how the swaying gets out of control. There were other characteristics in that swaying incident that contribute to the swaying like the driver taking too long to apply brakes and top heavy trailer. The bottom line with this is the operator needs to have the ability to apply immediate additional brake to the trailer when ever the tow vehicle is being pushed off track. It's imperative in slippery road conditions. Driving slow with a big heavy large wheel base only buys so much.

              Someone asked what my tongue weight was. It varies dependent on load. It is typically greater than 10 to 12%. or about 500 to 700 lbs. The rig Car and trailer) is designed to be level with the ball close as possible to axle vertical center line. The Tiger has stiffened body support points, heavy duty suspension, springs and automatic load leveling air shocks. All to reduce swaying harmonics. Tires are the sticky type and rated for the load. It is a sports car and and does what sports car do well. Much better traction than any pickup truck or SUV. Stops quicker, turns quicker, avoids accidents quicker and can out accelerate most, etc. So despite it's diminutive size, and lack of crash protection afforded by more sheet metal, it is reasonably safe from an accident prevention point of view........providing of course, this driver doesn't screw up and do something stupid.

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              • #52
                Had to resurrect this thread so I could tell you a story about the Sunbeam dealer I once worked for. But you'll have to look for it on 'Stove Huggers' under the title of 'Sunbeam Tiger'. Tiger Tom, I think you'll enjoy this.
                So.....if I'm 'pre-approved' why do you want me to fill out an application?

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                • #53
                  I am with TT here. This is cool if done correctly.
                  For the average person I HIGHLY discourage anything remotely like this. Safe?-marginally. Smart?-unlikely.... BUT...
                  The comments that you should not tow anything longer or heavier than the tow vehicle is ridiculous.
                  ALL tractor trailer semi's are longer and heavier than the tractor. You can argue all day long that a semi tractor is designed as a tow rig and that a Sunbeam is not. But what makes a Diesel truck safe to tow a 60' trailer? What makes a 12' flatnose Freightliner safe to tow triples 90' long? NOTHING other than power, brakes, and load set up.

                  I had a Chevy 2500HD Xcab. The truck was a total of 21' long and weighed in at about 6k. It had a tow rating of 12k. I had a 5th wheel RV that was 28' long and weighed 6500 lbs. Longer and heavier than the truck. pulled it like butter. I also had a boat, 21' boat but with the trailer tongue and swim steps.... it was a total of 24' long and weighed 5.5k. I had a class A license a few years back {let that drop for health reasons} and I would tow BOTH trailers no problem. Yes, at the SAME time. It was legal in Cali and I had even been stopped for a flickering tail light {just a loose trailer light connection} and the doubles, length and weight was never even questioned.

                  My total length was under 75' {about 72'} which is Ca MV code and my trailer weight came in right at my 12k rating. Towed like a dream as long as my electric brakes were set up well on the 5th wheel and the boat had hydraulic surge brakes. Towed up and down all kinds of windy steep roads no problem and yes even had to make a few abrupt evasive manuvers without issue.

                  Legally, if the car does not have a factory stated tow rating, then there is no law against towing whatever weight you want to, up to the state legal max for your class of license. And that applies to even driving in other states generally speaking. IE if your state has a 15k max load for a class C license, you could legally tow about 12k behind that 3k lb sunbeam.

                  Again, smart? Not really and not adviseable. But if the brakes are set up correctly {as it sounds like it is} and the vehicle has enough HP {and it does} and the load is centered correctly on the trailer with the proper balance and tongue weight, and especially if it has a nice load leveler set up with anti sway attachment, and a SMART driver, this is NOT an issue.

                  God speed TT. I am behind you and would love to see it on the road sometime, very cool pics.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    A load leveling anti fishtail hitch device also would provide excellent control. The brakes are the most important though and as Tom noted surge brakes are not the answer in a case like this because you cannot activate them separately.
                    Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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                    • #55
                      Tom, great reply to all the commentary this photo has drawn. And I can say "now I know the rest of the story".

                      I like your solution to controlling the trailer brakes. I run a 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins towing a 10kLb 5th wheel trailer and I have always biased my trailer brakes to apply enough force to 'almost' go into lockup on a gravel surface. This gives me a fair amount of trailer brake on initial application even before the tow vehicle brakes start to apply. A 'seperate' pedal to contol the trailer brakes sound like a catsass solution to this rig jockey. (I once drove professionally many moons ago)

                      Like BP says, 'waiting to see that photo'...

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                      • #56
                        OOPS. Missed page 2...

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                        • #57
                          Just an fyi... this thread was active 4 years ago.

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                          • #58
                            Additional FYI; Tom sold his Tiger over a year ago.
                            "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

                            Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
                            Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
                            '33 Rockne 10,
                            '51 Commander Starlight,
                            '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
                            '56 Sky Hawk

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                            • #59
                              Yup. First time back in a long time and failed to scan the time/date stamps or even check for the second page. My bad.

                              My comments stand, though and I think it is still a pertinant subject for people to think over.

                              Have a great day everyone.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by 2moredoors View Post
                                The Sunbeam has the power its used a Ford 260 V8, later a Chrylser V8 (Sunbeam II). I might worry about braking power as the Sunbeam is not very heavy.
                                Ahhh, No. The Sunbeam Mark II (1967 only - last year) was powered by the Ford 289 2bbl.. Though Rootes became controlled by Chrysler they never used their own engines. They were too wide and the rear mounted distributor would interfere with the firewall. Having to buy engines from Ford and safety/smog regulations ceased the production of the Tiger. But, yes, and not only the brakes, but the whole car structure itself is not up to the task.
                                '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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