Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A question without a answer I can come up with.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A question without a answer I can come up with.

    When I see a rust free Studebaker in decent shape, even a lower level sedan, I tend to see its value, but the market often does not. i.e., a pretty much, rust free Lark sedan, needing little would sell for under 3K. OK, maybe that's the market, but it does not explain why a rust bucket example of the same car, needing everything would bring say half that or more.
    Do the buyers think they can restore the car, replacing fenders and floors and rebuild a engine for say $1500 ? I also still see buyers balk at paying $1000 in shipping to get a rust free, west coast car only to spend 2-3 times that to repair rust on a local car.

    Those of you that are restoring a rust bucket, could you explain your thought process ? Is it the challenge, love of the breed, limited purchase budget or what ? Yes, it's a marketing question for me, maybe I need to search out cheaper project cars.
    JDP Maryland

  • #2
    I think people look at the initial outlay first. If they have $1500 in their pocket, they will look for a car they like that can be bought for $1500. To get that car, restored, and ready to drive, might cost $6000, but they don't have that kind of cash on hand, and are not willing to borrow to finance a "toy".

    But they are willing to spend the additional $8000, in dribs and drabs, that it will take to make a $1500 car into a $6000 one, because the money is spent as it becomes available, and does not become a debt burden.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by gordr View Post
      I think people look at the initial outlay first. If they have $1500 in their pocket, they will look for a car they like that can be bought for $1500. To get that car, restored, and ready to drive, might cost $6000, but they don't have that kind of cash on hand, and are not willing to borrow to finance a "toy".

      But they are willing to spend the additional $8000, in dribs and drabs, that it will take to make a $1500 car into a $6000 one, because the money is spent as it becomes available, and does not become a debt burden.
      My thoughts exactly, I can spread my resto out over a few years and absorb the cost a lot easier then dropping huge coin all at once.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by gordr View Post
        I think people look at the initial outlay first. If they have $1500 in their pocket, they will look for a car they like that can be bought for $1500. To get that car, restored, and ready to drive, might cost $6000, but they don't have that kind of cash on hand, and are not willing to borrow to finance a "toy".

        But they are willing to spend the additional $8000, in dribs and drabs, that it will take to make a $1500 car into a $6000 one, because the money is spent as it becomes available, and does not become a debt burden.
        Yup, and also the fact that a significant number of enthusiasts, including forum members, can do a lot of the expensive work in their facilities (where time is cheap) and choose to spend the money on running gear and engine improvements to build a great driver. They're not 399 point restored vehicles but a personal statement that generally look great to the general public that attends the local shows and cruises.

        You don't need to look at a lot of recent posts to appreciate the skill level of a large number of our forum members.

        Bob
        , ,

        Comment


        • #5
          I think these ideas are right on. John, your view is informed by your need to turn the car in a reasonable time and come out ahead. The folks who buy these are looking for a long term hobby and can sometimes substitute their time for cash. Of course a lot of these end up as unfinished projects.
          Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

          40 Champion 4 door*
          50 Champion 2 door*
          53 Commander K Auto*
          53 Commander K overdrive*
          55 President Speedster
          62 GT 4Speed*
          63 Avanti R1*
          64 Champ 1/2 ton

          * Formerly owned

          Comment


          • #6
            I spent an extra $800 to ship the last car I bought from California to Michigan. It's worth it. The frame is great, the floors are solid, no rust in the doors... I'll never start with a rusty car again. The one rust bucket I did restore was my '64 convertible, but even though they are fairly rare I'd never do a rusty one again!
            Neil

            1964 Daytona Convertible
            1964 Daytona Hardtop
            1962 Champ Truck
            1957 Golden Hawk

            Comment


            • #7
              John, I see your point and agree to a large extent. Though I think the rust buckets needing everything often sell for much less than half of a running decent example, especially something like a Lark sedan are often almost given away. Even on the West Coast I see them on Craig's list between $500 and $1000 with some regularity. I agree with the project starting point philosophy of buying the best condition car you can afford. You can still have the pride of doing the work yourself, you will just get done sooner and with less invested. Maybe people believe that cars are more rare than they really are so when they see one the feel they need to grab it. There are those who also feel the need to save them. Also it seems Studebaker lovers tend to collect flocks, more so than most other car people that I know.
              Pat Dilling
              Olivehurst, CA
              Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


              LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

              Comment


              • #8
                GORD!...I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Also, many of us get as much a thrill out of the challenge of doing the work as we do driving and showing the car. In my case...I try to keep large cash outlays "under my wife's radar." I have learned that life is much more peaceful that way.

                My saying is "Anybody can just buy a car!" I have been a member of the SDC for decades and have witnessed many of what I call, "comers and goers." What I mean is that some folks with the resources to BUY a car...join the club, participate in activities, and even serve as officers. However, they are easily disillusioned by the experience of having to pay others to work on the car. They often don't have the knowledge, capability, energy, and most of all, the passion to stay with it. The first time a wheel bearing fails, wire shorts out, or the radio stops playing, and the clock stops ticking...they are ready to throw in the towel and move on.

                My business coupe took me over 6 years to restore. When it was completed, I went through a little bit of "post project depression" because the great "project" that had been such a part of my life was no longer there. When I got home in the evenings, instead of working on the "project" I had to do regular chores like normal people...and that was depressing!

                There are all kinds that make up our group, including those who enjoy the "hunt," buying and re-selling. Some who like rolling beaters, and others who are sticklers for detail trailer hauling perfectionist. Then we have the parts vendors who get a kick out of finding and selling parts. Some are horn button collectors and others fixated on hub caps or pocket watches. It is a great fascinating mixture of eclectic and rather excentric personalities...and I love it!


                John Clary
                Greer, SC

                SDC member since 1975

                Comment


                • #9
                  I enjoy saving a car from being salvaged or parted out. Although I wont buy a car with excessive rust (too much work). Sometimes I have made drivers out of them and pass them on to the next guy or sometime I'll keep them and just tinker on them for years.

                  John

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would love to have a rust free 64 two door sedan but to get it I would need to take out a loan and that is something I cannot afford right now.

                    My dearly departed 62 two door sedan I bought by working for a body shop owner for a couple of afternoons back in the early 1980s, I worked maybe 8-12 hours at perhaps 3-4 dollars an hours. The engine was in the trunk minus a crank and the car sat until a fellow club member up in Omaha gave me a six that his folks wanted out of their yard and all it cost me was the gas to get it... so I had my crank.

                    I got the car running and drove it until the frame broke up at the left front shock tower. I then used a bunch of parts and a semi-derilect 62 hardtop body to build the car that I have been tinkering on for the last 20 years or so.

                    Time I have, money... lets see what the budget says this month

                    I would love to be in the position where I do not have to spend most of my time patching holes but a 4x8 sheet of 18 gauge sheetmetal costs around $90 (cutting included) with tax and a roll of welding wire is around $10. My outside time, while limited, is free

                    On the good side of the ledger we will not have the cost of preschool after May but in the future there will be dance lessons, music lessons, scouting and athletics to be determined.

                    The family car will be paid off in the next couple of years, maybe I can get that 64 or 65/66 sedan I always wanted

                    We'll just have to see what the budget says that month

                    Jeff T.
                    \"I\'m getting nowhere as fast as I can\"
                    The Replacements.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      John,

                      People always tend to undervalue the cost of their own labor. They think it's free, but what they forget is that there's always a trade-off because people have a limited amount of time to expend on any one activity. While they're fixing that floor, they could be rebuilding the engine or prepping the body for paint, for example. I'm not pointing fingers, I've done it too - I once had a 60 Lark HT that I bought in Indiana that needed a ton of rust repair and I spent a lot of time on it. Later, I bought another 60 Lark HT in Los Angeles that needed no rust repair. I was able to spend my limited time on mechanical issues instead of rust problems and it made a world of difference. I understand that working on cars is fun, but working on extensive rust repair - especially if there are body or frame alignment problems or major panels that need replacement - is something I don't miss.
                      Scott Rodgers
                      Los Angeles
                      SDC Member since 1989
                      \'60 Lark HT
                      \'63 Wagonaire
                      \'66 Frankenbaker

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pat Dilling View Post
                        John, I see your point and agree to a large extent. Though I think the rust buckets needing everything often sell for much less than half of a running decent example, especially something like a Lark sedan are often almost given away. Even on the West Coast I see them on Craig's list between $500 and $1000 with some regularity.

                        Let's see where this rusty example ends up, it needs fenders and floors at least.

                        http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQ...mZ190522013424
                        JDP Maryland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by scott.rodgers View Post
                          John,

                          People always tend to undervalue the cost of their own labor. They think it's free, but what they forget is that there's always a trade-off because people have a limited amount of time to expend on any one activity. While they're fixing that floor, they could be rebuilding the engine or prepping the body for paint, for example. I'm not pointing fingers, I've done it too - I once had a 60 Lark HT that I bought in Indiana that needed a ton of rust repair and I spent a lot of time on it. Later, I bought another 60 Lark HT in Los Angeles that needed no rust repair. I was able to spend my limited time on mechanical issues instead of rust problems and it made a world of difference. I understand that working on cars is fun, but working on extensive rust repair - especially if there are body or frame alignment problems or major panels that need replacement - is something I don't miss.
                          I've restored my share of rust buckets too, but that was before it was easy to find and ship cars in. For me, part of it was budget too, I could afford a $300 53 HT, but not a 2K example. Also, rust bucket Larks were easy to restore with $25 fenders back in the day.
                          JDP Maryland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gordr View Post
                            I think people look at the initial outlay first. If they have $1500 in their pocket, they will look for a car they like that can be bought for $1500. To get that car, restored, and ready to drive, might cost $6000, but they don't have that kind of cash on hand, and are not willing to borrow to finance a "toy".

                            But they are willing to spend the additional $8000, in dribs and drabs, that it will take to make a $1500 car into a $6000 one, because the money is spent as it becomes available, and does not become a debt burden.
                            Right on. For me what the car's end value is doesn't matter. It is the enjoyment of working on it and learning other skills because I have to. I don't have the resources to be able to throw my wallet at it, but I have lots of time available.

                            Terry

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X