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Shades of Bonneville....

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  • #16
    Hmm, I always forget how they plumbed that induction setup. Usually the way I have seen(Okay I only have 1-2 examples) was the blowers were fed into two separate carbs. In this manner, I knew they did something wildly different, where there was no traditional manifold, but the air/fuel mixture came into the heads directly from the plumbing hanging on the front of the engine.
    Well, now I have an overhead shot of how that worked. The throttle body was mounted up front, the plumbing tee'd behind it to the two blowers, which then fed the heads in two separate banks in a draw through, rather than a blow through setup. If it's possible, I'd love to see a modern overhead shot of that engine much like the third black and white photo, as it is now being reassembled .
    1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
    1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
    1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
    1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

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    • #17
      More about the shirt...

      The Avanti Team shirt picture that started this thread was not one that Greg had for many years nor is it a re-pop. It was a current gift to Greg. His words-
      "Ups came today and really shot my evening work plans.
      I am really enjoying getting back to my Avanti days. Except for the problems presented by drastically overpriced materials, motor oil that kills, and reproduction parts that don't fit, the getting reacquainted with my favorite modern car and establishing contact with old and new friends in the search for information is total enjoyment.
      Although I'm a dinosaur where modern technology is concerned, I find that this computer does enhance the search for information, the R-5 project included.
      Where that's concerned, I'm especially fortunate to have made some contact with the Granatellis themselves. I've never been able to do that . Once while stationed in Germany, I even hopped a train to Bavaria when I heard they were in country to see about an Indy car chassis. I missed them, that forty years ago.
      I now have contact, though being careful not to wear out my welcome.
      Then in today's mail comes this, a gift from the Granatelli family. Can you believe a NOS Team shirt from 1963.
      Open the Youtube "Bonneville Record Breaker" video. The crew has them on.
      I haven't opened the sealed plastic. Malcolm Collum, formerly of the Henry Ford and currently Chief Conservator for Nat'l Air and Space has already been consulted. A good friend to have on your side...."
      Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
      '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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      • #18
        Originally posted by PlainBrownR2 View Post
        The throttle body was mounted up front, the plumbing tee'd behind it to the two blowers, which then fed the heads in two separate banks in a draw through, rather than a blow through setup.
        :.
        I think I read somewhere that it was a Benidix fuel injector...but can't recall the source. Is this engine slated to be run or installed in a actual car or engine dyno?? Regardless, the wow factor is off the scale. Junior
        sigpic
        1954 C5 Hamilton car.

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        • #19
          I'm going to grab a thread from an earlier posting on the engine, but they did use Bendix fuel injection...
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ighlight=Cento

          I am also pretty impressed, but I do keep in mind what was said early on about idling around on the street with it, because it wasn't to cruise on a street, but rather blasting down the strip at high rpms on the salt flats . That said, with 40 years of technological improvement in between, tuning shouldn't be AS hard to pull off .
          1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
          1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
          1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
          1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

          Comment


          • #20
            On the AACA forum he states that he doesn't have pistons for it......I happen to have a set of R3 Fordged True pistons....Hmmmmm.
            I need an R3 Fan blade and supercharger elbow.
            Bez Auto Alchemy
            573-318-8948
            http://bezautoalchemy.com


            "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bezhawk View Post
              On the AACA forum he states that he doesn't have pistons for it......I happen to have a set of R3 Fordged True pistons....Hmmmmm.
              I need an R3 Fan blade and supercharger elbow.
              I'll give him your phone number. However, I think his problem is he wants to build the engine exactly as it was run at Bonneville. He could make his own pistons. I think there is some question as to what pistons were used at Bonneville. It has taken him many years to solve as many riddles as he has. The side-view picture posted by Bellingham Studenut helped answer one question- did they use a different sump from the R-3s on the Bonneville engine.
              The R-3 supercharger elbow is really an unobtainium item. Even the crate R-3 I got came with the R-2 elbow and that was from Granatellis in 1965. When I was looking for one Jon Myer told me he had never been able to find them.
              Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
              '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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              • #22
                My R3 sump has an oil temp sensor bung brazed into place too (like in the pics).
                Bez Auto Alchemy
                573-318-8948
                http://bezautoalchemy.com


                "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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                • #23
                  What is the story on the R5 parts find? Did I miss something?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by StudeMichael View Post
                    What is the story on the R5 parts find? Did I miss something?
                    Greg Cone has loved Avantis since as a teenager he saw a new one being unloaded at his home town Studebaker dealer. While it was some time before he could afford to buy an Avanti himself, he started collecting high performance Studebaker engine parts almost immediately. In the '60s he and another man went to Granatellis in California and bought up a bunch of parts and Bonneville stuff. Greg got the R-5 engine stuff. As time went on he ultimately acquired three Avantis one which he made in to a perfect R-3 clone even to Halibrands. He has kept the R-5 story secret for many years, but finally got to the point that he could begin telling it. I met Greg in the early '70s when we were both members of the defunct National Capital Area Avanti Owners chapter. We have sort of kept in touch over the years. Several years ago I introduced Greg to Bob Johnstone and I think Bob's huge Avanti resource site got Greg going on the R-5 again.
                    To understand the story you have to know that Greg was/is an unbelievable restoration craftsman. He worked for White Post Restorations for years. When he left White Post it was to restore antique aircraft. An example of his ingenuity is that he hand made the engines for the Wright Flyer replicas that were commissioned for the 100th anniversary of flight in 2003.
                    Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                    '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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                    • #25
                      Interesting:

                      "He has kept the R-5 story secret for many years, but finally got to the point that he could begin telling it".

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                      • #26
                        Hi- what he was talking about was the story of the pieces of the R5 engine that he had stored away. The story of the R5 is, of course, well known and told. Greg didn't want anyone bothering him about the pieces that he had. He fairly recently began putting it back together, and only once he had it together, did he want to share and tell the story.

                        Thus, it possibly should have read "kept the story of his acquisition and reincarnation" of the R5 engine secret for years....

                        In another piece of trivia, the engine block he'd acquired had no serial number. In recent conversations with Granatelli, he questioned that fact. Granatelli stated that Studebaker only supplied him blocks with no serial number, as the company didn't want an engine that could be installed in a "real" car and registered for street use....best to all David Coco Winchester Va.

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                        • #27
                          How many R-5/Due Cento engines were assembled in total? And how many more were made from 'spare parts'?

                          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ighlight=cento

                          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...hlight=bennett

                          Craig
                          Last edited by 8E45E; 02-20-2011, 05:08 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by trimacar View Post
                            Hi- what he was talking about was the story of the pieces of the R5 engine that he had stored away. The story of the R5 is, of course, well known and told. Greg didn't want anyone bothering him about the pieces that he had. He fairly recently began putting it back together, and only once he had it together, did he want to share and tell the story.

                            Thus, it possibly should have read "kept the story of his acquisition and reincarnation" of the R5 engine secret for years....

                            In another piece of trivia, the engine block he'd acquired had no serial number. In recent conversations with Granatelli, he questioned that fact. Granatelli stated that Studebaker only supplied him blocks with no serial number, as the company didn't want an engine that could be installed in a "real" car and registered for street use....best to all David Coco Winchester Va.
                            Excellent suggestions David. Thanks. I often leave too many things "understood" rather than stated and welcome to the Forum.
                            Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                            '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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                            • #29
                              Thanks- glad to be here...I'm a follower of the AACA forum, but was disappointed to see the ho hum response there to posting of R5 engine pictures, and Greg directed me here, where, obviously, there are more interested people.

                              I own numerous collector cars but, alas, no Studebaker. I'm interested in owning an Avanti, as I've been around Greg for 20 plus years, and the fever is catching, just never found the right R2 for me.

                              Greg's interest is mainly in early brass cars, pre-1915, and he owns a beautiful 50 horsepower 1912 Stoddard Dayton, among other early cars.

                              It's quite a contrast, his interest, from early brass to the highest powered Studebaker.......

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by trimacar View Post
                                Thanks- glad to be here...I'm a follower of the AACA forum, but was disappointed to see the ho hum response there to posting of R5 engine pictures, and Greg directed me here, where, obviously, there are more interested people.

                                I own numerous collector cars but, alas, no Studebaker. I'm interested in owning an Avanti, as I've been around Greg for 20 plus years, and the fever is catching, just never found the right R2 for me.

                                Greg's interest is mainly in early brass cars, pre-1915, and he owns a beautiful 50 horsepower 1912 Stoddard Dayton, among other early cars.

                                It's quite a contrast, his interest, from early brass to the highest powered Studebaker.......
                                Greg sent me pictures of the Stoddard-Dayton several years ago. Sure points to his craftsmanship. I remember some years ago he drove his Overland from White Post to the Rockville, MD show- everyone else trailered cars much later than his.
                                Greg's before and later pictures of the Stoddard-Dayton. He mentioned that he had to machine the hubs and drums from billet stock.



                                Last edited by 53k; 02-20-2011, 08:17 AM.
                                Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                                '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

                                Comment

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