Why is this Hawk going for $18,000 +

[Bob Andrews]

How do you know when a car sells on Craigslist? And for how much?

I didn't say I saw what they SOLD for. Just what I saw posted in the listings.

MAYBE the bidders actually did their due diligence and went and saw the car for themselves.

Yup, just what I said

[jnormanh]

Assuming the final $18,100 bid was genuine, and there's no evidence that it was not, then that's what the car is worth. Willing buyer plus willing seller = fair market value. I see lots of cars, especially at venues like B-J which sell for more than EYE think they're worth, but then I'm neither the buyer nor seller. Not being a player, nobody does, or should, care what EYE think. Guesses from the cheap seats are worth nothing.

JDP has probably looked at, evaluated, turned down, bought, worked on, and sold more Studebakers than the next ten highest people on this forum combined. I'd give more weight to his opinion that anyone elses.

[kurtruk]

[=Bob Andrews;525142]I base that on what I have observed in real-world sales; some for sale on CL and elsewhere, but mostly on eBay.


How do you know when a car sells on Craigslist? And for how much?


Tough to pay top money based on that ad.


MAYBE the bidders actually did their due diligence and went and saw the car for themselves.

All that, plus what I've personally seen in the market, equals a clear sky in my world[/QUOTE]

[JDP]

Theres lotsa doors. $4,000
Klif

Hold on the guessing until we get it prepped and listed with pictures and description. BTW, if you are correct, it won't make reserves since we have over that in her.

[klifton1]

Theres lotsa doors. $4,000
Klif

[Bob Andrews]

I disagree. The car had some minor issues, but well worth the final bid. As to "shill" bidding, it looks like a lot of bids to find the 18K reserve, than one winning bid $100 higher at the end. You simple can't buy and restore a fin Hawk to that level for anything approaching 18K. As to the other comment that it's worth half the high bid, what color is the sky in that world.

I base that on what I have observed in real-world sales; some for sale on CL and elsewhere, but mostly on eBay. I enjoy all Studes and follow the eBay auctions daily, just to see what they do. While I do not have any links to specific cars, I thought carefully and cannot recall ANY non-Golden Hawk that is described with "THERE CERTAINLY IS LOTS OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT" that ever actually got bid over $10K. I suppose a Super Hawk might, but I haven't seen any of those on eBay for some time.

As for this specific car- no argument it is a nice car. But as we all know, pictures can make pretty poor paint look good; so there's no way to tell how good it is. Seeing the bowed out left rocker made me wonder. Seller says "paint is driver condition, not show quality". That can mean most anything. That's not a criticism, it just raises the question. Chrome is "older" but "decent". Car has a color change; that can be a big-buck operation, or a quickie disaster. How can you see which? Combine that with "CERTAINLY IS LOTS OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT" and you see how I arrived at my opinion. You say "You simply can't buy and restore a fin Hawk to that level for anything approaching 18K." Based on the above, what level could you be sure it is?

Now maybe the bidders went to see it and determined it was in excellent condition after all. But based on the info I cite from the listing alone it is hard to believe it would draw that kind of money. I agree that you couldn't restore one for that, but we're assuming it's restored, and a quality job. Tough to pay top money based on that ad. Shill bidding? If one has a few different accounts or buddies with accounts, how hard would it be to simulate anything? There's no way to tell.

All that, plus what I've personally seen in the market, equals a clear sky in my world

[JDP]

SNIP

No, the prices haven't kept up with inflation.

Maybe, a miracle will happen, but I'm still waiting - one or two higher than average Hawk or Avanti sales doesn't lift all 4-door Larks.

jack vines

OK, we'll have a contest to guess the value of our 64 Cruiser when it goes on ebay in a few days and see where the market is on that car at least.

[PackardV8]

Ya'll ever consider the possibility that Studebaker in gerneral, and Hawks and possibly some Larks in particular, might just be the next "Sweetheart cars" t hat the general public goes ga-ga over? Think about it for a second..

Yes, we've been waiting for the second coming of Studebaker for fifty-six years now. I'm one who remembers $50 Studes from fifty years ago. My first Hawk was $350. However, I have figured out how to use an inflation calculator. Today's prices are in phony money, compared to old guy memories.

No, the prices haven't kept up with inflation. A good Studebaker has never been a better buy than it is today. Last year I bought and sold a decent driver GT 4-speed with disc brakes on eBay for $6,000. In 1970 dollars, that would have been $1000. That GT has always been one of the most desirable Studes and it hasn't gone up a nickle in forty years.

Maybe, a miracle will happen, but I'm still waiting - one or two higher than average Hawk or Avanti sales doesn't lift all 4-door Larks.

jack vines

[JDP]

I've heard the same speculation when my Golden Hawk sold for 25K years ago, now we've seen a lesser GH sell for 99K. Once a few sell at a higher price, the rest of the market follows. I never thought I'd see 6-8K 4 door Larks either, but that's going to be the price for exceptional, entry level Studebakers. IMHO. Of course, if I'm wrong, I just paid too much for a 64 Cruiser. BTW, I think the 61 Hawks bid was just about market value, not exceptionally high, nor low.

[E. Davis]

I'm not surprised. A 61 4 speed Hawk went for $18500.00 here last fall at an auction. Its hard to tell from pictures but this one looks to be in better shape than the auction car (which I bid up to $8000.00 incidently). These things are few and far between in good condition so I think it might have been a bargain if the description is true.

[Cash]

Ya'll ever consider the possibility that Studebaker in gerneral, and Hawks and possibly some Larks in particular, might just be the next "Sweetheart cars" t hat the general public goes ga-ga over? Think about it for a second..

[oldguy]

Maybe, just maybe, reality is kicking in. Due to age, this may be the last one I do from the ground up. Knowing what it costs in time and money to do it myself, I'd expect that range for the right car.

[jackb]

No one sale defines the market..only what "one" buyer is willing to pay at "one" time.......There should be a bunch of finned Hawks out of the woodwork soon...then we can take an average of them and find a better value. I say this happily due to the fact that I sold a nice ragtop a few years back for decent dough.......there have been several on eBay since then garnering about 1/2 the cabbage....

[studejack]

I don't get it either, but it seems like people are getting crazier and crazier as time goes on with what they're willing to pay for cars. I do agree with the idea that part of the explanation might be the increasing cost of restoration. Unfortunately, I am one of the fools who still spends his time and money restoring Studebakers, when the truth is that the only people benefiting are those who sell parts and labor. I also think it's time to give it up, because I want to get behind the wheel and DRIVE Studebakers before gasoline becomes truly unaffordable -- thanks to our well-considered decision to accelerate the depletion of oil supplies by facilitating the creation of Western-style Chinese and Indian Happy Motoring economies. Really bright move, that one. But I digress!

[50starlite]

It's a lot like real estate. You and I may not think it was worth 18K, but the market did! It also helps set the bar for the next like hawk. That's not all bad either.