Why do people use the term....

[Mike Van Veghten]

"Frame off"........restoration.

When it's damn near impossible to do..?

To me anyway....it just makes the person using it, sound...well...I'll keep that to myself.

And "restoration". BOY....is that over used. A "restoration" with Cragar wheels, lowered and candy red paint....!

Rant over.

Mike

[PackardV8]

HI, Mike

Your rants are always interesting, even when they scare many ;>)

As to why descriptions of auto processes and for sale ads are less than accurate:

1. There are 308,000,000 people in the US. By definition, half of us are of below average intelligence. We/they too own old cars and write for sale ads.

2. "Frame off" began as "The body was removed from the frame and every component on the vehicle was made like new." Then, that upper half started saying, "Body-off-frame restoration," as a way to pay for fewer words in Hemmings. After a few years, the lower half gives us "frame-off."

3. It is a law of economics and advertising, "Bad money drives out good." If a description, "restored as nearly as possible to the original as-manufactured condition" is perceived to add value to a for sale vehicle, then "restoration" will be applied, even if not applicable.

Rant out

jack vines

[BobWaitz]

Why do people use the term "Frame off"........restoration?

For the same reason people use the term "literally" when they really mean "figuratively."

We've heard it all at the car/bike auctions: Ground Up restoration. Top Down restoration. Once, an auctioneer wasn't getting any action on a chopped Harley Sportster with the after-market Battle-Axe fork so he says, "Do you know what it costs to put a fork like that on a bike like this?" Someone from the audience yelled back, "You know how much it costs to take one off?"

[starliner62]

HI, Mike

half of us are of below average intelligence. We/they too own old cars and write for sale ads.

jack vines

And what exactly are you trying to say?????? I knew that there was something wrong with us!!!<GGG>

[studeclunker]

"Frame off"........restoration.

When it's damn near impossible to do..?

To me anyway....it just makes the person using it, sound...well...I'll keep that to myself.

And "restoration". BOY....is that over used. A "restoration" with Cragar wheels, lowered and candy red paint....!

Rant over.

Mike

Body-off, Frame-off, it means the same thing. I'm considering this process for my Studees. It's the years-long commitment that's involved that puts me off. My preferrence is to see more restorations than modifieds, honestly. Then again, I am an anal-retentive, opinionated, old fart!

[Flashback]

Why is a frame off near impossible?

[PackardV8]

Why is a frame off near impossible?

Can you write a one-sentence definition of "frame off'?

jack vines

[Flashback]

To disassemble an automobile completely, including removing the body from the frame, and restore it , as near as possible, to the original condition.

[Gunslinger]

I don't say my Avanti is "restored" as it's nothing like it was when new. I saw it went through a "reconstruction" to the standards and configuration I wanted. Maybe it's a distinction without a difference, but it's my way of trying to be as accurate as I can with what I did with the car.

I do think "body off" is more accurate than "frame off", but the language is what it is. Something like "military intelligence".

[PackardV8]

To disassemble an automobile completely, including removing the body from the frame,

I do think "body off" is more accurate than "frame off"

Exactly. IIRC, Mike is in some area of aircraft engineering. In technical writing, especially where lives are at stake, exact, precise and accurate descriptions of technical processes are part of the job description. He probably feels "Frame off" is an imprecise description of what is being done. That's why it bugs him so much.

FWIW, Many, many years ago, I worked with nuclear weapons. On the job, there were terminologies, words and phrases which had to be used exactly every time. There were words and phases which could not be used. Any slang or paraphrasing would get one removed and disciplined. Those sorts of environments, plus an English and writing degree, makes one pay close attention to writing and speaking.

jack vines

[WCP]

You can do a "body off" body restoration without touching the frame and you can do a "frame off" frame restoration without touching the body. Take your pick. Either indicates that something was done after the units were separated.

[Flashback]

I am a building official, and before I could get my certification, I was required to pass a legal course. When I make a decision at work, I have to dot every i and cross every t. You know, things like using "must" instead of "may" However, playing with old cars, is NOT work for me. Nor, is it rocket science. Maybe we should use renovate rarher than restore. Next time I lift a body off the frame, I will be sure to make my notes correctly.

[PackardV8]

My favorite recent ad was for a "1965 Mustang fastback - frame off restoration into a Shelby GT350, HiPo 302 equipped as you would expect." Like with the kids page in the Sunday cartoons - point out three things wrong with this description.

jack vines

[studegary]

As to why descriptions of auto processes and for sale ads are less than accurate:

1. There are 308,000,000 people in the US. By definition, half of us are of below average intelligence. We/they too own old cars and write for sale ads.


jack vines

This is NOT correct. The mean or average of a group of numbers/data does not necessarily mean that half of the numbers/data points are above and half are below (only for the case of a normal distribution). It is the median number where half of the numbers/data points are above and half are below. An average can be greatly skewed. For example, the house average selling price in this county last month showed an increase because there were many homes sold for $200K to $600K and one home for $2.3Million. In this example, the median, rather than the mean/average was a better indicator of the market.

[8E45E]

Can you write a one-sentence definition of "frame off'?

With my current restoration project, presently, the body is in the garage while the frame inside the house!

Craig