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Grrrr... Even Motor Trend Magazine is Piling on the Avanti

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  • Grrrr... Even Motor Trend Magazine is Piling on the Avanti

    Kind of a backhanded compliment...

    Lemons to Lemonade: Auto Flops Occasionally Turn Into Collectible Cars



    Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/6659780/cl...#ixzz0rIHNrJ4x

    http://wot.motortrend.com/6659780/cl.../photo_05.html
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  • #2
    Doesn't matter. I bought some Keystone raffle tickets and am hoping to have a gorgeous Avanti in my driveway soon!

    Cabrina

    Comment


    • #3
      True, Jeffster; kind of a back-handed compliment. Articles like this need to, but rarely, distinguish between bad cars, bad marketing, and/or severe production problems.

      The Avanti was a good car for what it was, and the marketing was, IMHO, doggone good. The car really was exposed all over the place, and favorably received in most quarters.

      But, and that's a big but, production problems were just horrific. Who knows how many they could have sold if they could have built them...and how much all that income and good exposure would have helped the entire corporation's automotive division?

      David Blackmer repeatedly spoke of this during the interview for the July 2009 Turning Wheels. He was a tack-sharp marketing guy in the red-hot southern California automobile market. You can just imagine all the marketing types pulling out their hair all day long due to the corporation's inability to build and ship the cars in a timely manner. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        With all due respect to all of those involved in the original Avanti project I do not believe the car would have ever have sold in sufficient numbers to make any real difference in Studebaker's bottom line. It was an "image car," like the Corvette was for GM (I read somewhere years ago that the Corvette did not make money for GM for over a decade after its introduction). The production problems so often mentioned had been worked out at a fairly early date and that would not be a major issue after the Ashtabula issue was resolved. Fact is the Avanti was difficult to sell in all but some of the larger dealer markets like those in Southern California (for what it is worth Simonson and Schactmayer in Santa Monica, CA was the top selling Avanti dealer in the U.S.). Some new Avantis were still sitting on showroom floors as late as 1965. I agree that Studebaker did a good job in marketing the Avanti but the prospect that the Avanti could have saved Studebaker (or even any substantial effect) is not, in my opinion, a realistic view.
        Last edited by Studebaker Wheel; 06-19-2010, 09:30 AM.
        Richard Quinn
        Editor emeritus: Antique Studebaker Review

        Comment


        • #5
          Agreed even if the Avanti was a smashing success its sales wouldn't have saved Studebaker, BUT if Stude could have cranked out all the Avanti's the market demanded it not only would have helped the bottom line it would have improved their reputation AND brought even more traffic into the showrooms. That might have been enough to make a real difference.

          And the Solstice Coupe REALLY doesn't belong on that list, it didn't flop, it had its company pulled out from under by orders from GM's new owners it just as production was starting.
          Last edited by JeffDeWitt; 06-19-2010, 02:06 PM.
          Jeff DeWitt
          http://carolinastudes.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow, first a flop, now a lemon? Whats amazing to me is that, with those comments, how
            DID it continue to be produced for over two decades virtually unchanged?? What other car
            can claim that? Sounds like some fools trying to seem educated about rare cars.

            Tom
            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

            Comment


            • #7
              Too bad most of the car magazines of the period...and now...judge everything with out and out sportscars.
              Have you ever read a story where they said there is too much power (outside of a Porsche or Ferrari)?
              Read the period Avanti articles...they don't go out of their way to praise them because they're compairing them to some mythical (or at least expensive and or foreign) ideal.

              Yes, perhaps the Avanti should have had a bettter chassis than a Lark convertible...something to match its advanced styling and R-1-2 powertrain.
              But it was no worse than other cars of its class...if there were other cars of its class which may have been part of the problem.
              Bigger than a Corvette, smaller than T-Bird....
              Not to mention asking people to pay big money ($5500 for my car) for a car made by a firm whose long-term existence was in doubt.
              As I've said before here, the only thing that could have saved Studebaker was a monster hit of 64 1/2 Mustang proportions...but even then could Studebaer have produced enough, could its dealers network sell enough and would the public buy them from a company that was teetering towards the abiss?
              63 Avanti R1 2788
              1914 Stutz Bearcat
              (George Barris replica)

              Washington State

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sbca96 View Post
                Whats amazing to me is that, with those comments, how
                DID it continue to be produced for over two decades virtually unchanged?? What other car
                can claim that?

                Tom
                Volkswagen Beetles?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Checker Marathon?

                  Originally posted by mbstude View Post
                  Volkswagen Beetles?
                  HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                  Jeff


                  Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                  Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Porsche? Land Rover?

                    Yall have to be careful in that Studebaker, just like some of the European makes, adopted an evolutionary philosophy to building automobiles. Rather than spit out a new car year after year, they would take one particular design or model, and over the years refine the design to keep removing the bugs out of the model. What results if the make is successful is not only a very competitive vehicle, but also an iconic vehicle as well, even if it looks the same year after year after year.
                    1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                    1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                    1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                    1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Volkswagen Beetle was produced by Volkswagen from 1938 until 2003 - 65 years.

                      The Checker Marathon was produced by the Checker Motors Company of Kalamazoo, Michigan,
                      between 1961 and 1982 - 21 years.

                      OK, I will add one too then ... Lamborghini Countach was a mid-engined sports car produced by
                      Italian automaker Lamborghini from 1974 to 1990 - 16 years.

                      My point was, there are not many.

                      Tom
                      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cooper/Morris Mini.
                        http://datinmanspeaks.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sbca96 View Post
                          The Volkswagen Beetle was produced by Volkswagen from 1938 until 2003 - 65 years.
                          My point was, there are not many.

                          Tom
                          I see your point,
                          but allow me to point out that there would be very little commonality (both mechnically and body) between the first and last Beetle.
                          Compare a split window with a Super Beetle...might as well compare a 64 to 70 Mustang.
                          Whereas the 63 Avanti and quite a bit of body commonality until they went to the rectangular headlamps in 83 and still some body commonality until they quit making them in 91. So that's at least 20 years (not counting the break of production between Studebaker and the Avanti II) to as much as 28 years.

                          The Mini is a better example than the Beetle...same basic body from introduction in 62 to the end of the original in the 90s.
                          63 Avanti R1 2788
                          1914 Stutz Bearcat
                          (George Barris replica)

                          Washington State

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In all that I've read, Egbert did not expect the Avanti to be the savior of Studebaker, just create foot traffic for the showrooms. The high level of excitement it created must have surprised him a bit. I suspect his hope was to not lose money but stimulate the sales of their other cars. It's interesting to speculate on what Studebaker might have done to keep up with the emerging pony cars of 64, 65 and 66, but in 63, they had the best. I remember all the talk that this was a "different" car because it combined great design and power with 4 seats - a novel idea that smacked of practicality to those in the 18 to 35 demographics. What a disappointment that the majority of car crazies out there have not embraced the Avanti as many of us have.

                            Rich

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Your point about the Super Beetle is somewhat true, but VW did make the standard beetle in Mexico into the 90's. Of course they were some mods over the year, but it is still pretty much the same base car. I have a '66 VW.

                              Originally posted by JBOYLE View Post
                              I see your point,
                              but allow me to point out that there would be very little commonality (both mechnically and body) between the first and last Beetle.
                              Compare a split window with a Super Beetle...might as well compare a 64 to 70 Mustang.
                              Whereas the 63 Avanti and quite a bit of body commonality until they went to the rectangular headlamps in 83 and still some body commonality until they quit making them in 91. So that's at least 20 years (not counting the break of production between Studebaker and the Avanti II) to as much as 28 years.

                              The Mini is a better example than the Beetle...same basic body from introduction in 62 to the end of the original in the 90s.

                              Comment

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