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  • just me again

    still working very slowly on my 49
    Doors are off all interior is out and now I'm getting ready to pull the engine.

    I think I may attempt to "over haul" the flat 6 in my garage.

    sure it is gonna be a task However ;

    it appears that the machine work will be the most challenging
    by that I mean finding somebody that really knows what they are doing.
    I did a compression test yesterday and have 98psi in all 6 holes.
    I heard it should be around 110 -120
    another fellow told me to just clean it out and replace the valves and such and leave the pistons alone.

    So Im not real sure what to do.............Everything cost so much darn $$.

    But If ya wanna run with the big boyz ya gotta pay the big boy price!!

  • #2
    MR. DANO, HAVE YOU HAD THIS ENGINE RUNNING? AND HOW DOES IT RUN? MY 48 CHAMPION HAS A FRESH REBUILD AND ONLY HAS 100 TO 105 COMPRESION. I'M OLD SCHOOL AND I BELEIVE IF ITS NOT BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!!! CHAMP

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe CHAMP's got the right idea here. Geez, if all cylinders were spot on 96, I don't know that I'd worry too much.
      BTW, was this a "wet" test? That is to say, did you squirt a bit of oil in each cylinder before you checked compression?[:I]
      The way you describe the car, it sounds like it's been sitting for a time. If that's the case, the cylinders/rings could be awfully dry.
      Again, with that even a readings, I wouldn't bother with the valves either.

      IF, as CHAMP asks, you've heard and seen this engine run, did it run rough? Did it smoke? If the answer is "no" to both those, clean it up and leave it alone.
      Maybe replace any freeze plugs that are weeping - maybe pull the timing cover and see how much wear the fiber cam gear shows - other'n that, clean it, paint it and enjoy.
      Not every old car just summarily needs it's engine gone thru!

      Miscreant at large.

      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
      1960 Larkvertible V8
      1958 Provincial wagon
      1953 Commander coupe
      1957 President 2-dr
      1955 President State
      1951 Champion Biz cpe
      1963 Daytona project FS
      No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

      Comment


      • #4
        It smokes when you first start it up ......then it seems to die off when you let it run for a bit.

        The compression test was "dry" and I had all 6 plugs outa it at the time...and it was still not really turning over as fast as I thought it would Worth the plugs out...... but appt. fast enough to get a reading.

        The main reason I want to take it out is to paint the firewall and also paint the engine.

        Is there any trick to taking this out? So far I have only had the time to take out the rad.

        IS there anything outa the norm. that I should look for in taking it out? and what all should I tear apart to inspect it?

        Gezzzzzzzzzz I guess I still have tons of Q's.

        ............Oops not 98psi it only has 90-to 92 sorry about that !!

        Is that still good enough to not warrant a total re-build.

        I also heard that these old moters only have a life span of 60-70-80K's .........This one has 68K's ..............So is this something I should be concerned about?


        Another thing .....those doors were a butch to get off.........freakin big butt philips head.....I had to use a hammer impact on them to even get them to move...............I should of tried a lil. bit of heat HUH.<><><><>

        Comment


        • #5
          quote:Originally posted by Mr. Dan0

          It smokes when you first start it up ......then it seems to die off when you let it run for a bit.

          The compression test was "dry" and I had all 6 plugs outa it at the time...and it was still not really turning over as fast as I thought it would Worth the plugs out...... but appt. fast enough to get a reading.

          The main reason I want to take it out is to paint the firewall and also paint the engine.

          Is there any trick to taking this out? So far I have only had the time to take out the rad.

          IS there anything outa the norm. that I should look for in taking it out? and what all should I tear apart to inspect it?

          Gezzzzzzzzzz I guess I still have tons of Q's.

          ............Oops not 98psi it only has 90-to 92 sorry about that !!

          Is that still good enough to not warrant a total re-build.

          I also heard that these old moters only have a life span of 60-70-80K's .........This one has 68K's ..............So is this something I should be concerned about?


          Another thing .....those doors were a butch to get off.........freakin big butt philips head.....I had to use a hammer impact on them to even get them to move...............I should of tried a lil. bit of heat HUH.<><><><>
          DanO,

          Not all compression gages are created equal; could well be that you have one that reads a tad low. Another possibility is that the check valve in the gage leaks a bit, and won't hold above 90-92 psi, so that cylinders with higher compression get a false reading. I've SEEN that happen.

          If you can start the engine, warm it up, and then shut it down and take a compression test. That will show as close as you can the actual compression under operating conditions.

          I agree with the others; the engine may not be in all that bad shape. Oil rings are probably worn some, which will make it smoke and use some oil, but that really doesn't mean it's unsafe to drive it. Depends, of course on how you plan to be using the car. A rebuild would be worthwhile for a daily driver, or for a car that you plan to use on long tours. If you are just going to cruise the local drive-in twice a month, you might get more bang for your buck by concentrating on appearance items, and leave the engine be until such time as you really NEED to do it.

          Experience has shown that a large part of oil consumption in Champion engines is due to the valve lifter bores becoming worn, which in turn allows a LOT of oil at full system pressure, to spray into the valve chamber, where it can get sucked up worn intake guides. A ring job won't fix this, more likely will worsen the problem due to better vacuum from new rings.

          Anyone here know if one can fit positive-type valve stem seals on champion engines?

          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

          Comment


          • #6
            Like Mr. Biggs says, do the compression check again, this time squirt oil into the cylinders first. Studes are known for long distance engines, the engines usually long outlast the cars! If it seems to be turning over slowly, that would be the fault of the starter, not the engine itself. If your compression is consistant with all the cyclinders within about 10% (with a wet compression test), you will be fine without a rebuild. Of course, if you have decided that you will have the engine out and want to rebuild it because it is a good time to do it, go ahead.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks guys!

              Comment


              • #8
                getting ready to do a "wet" test.

                And I had a mind fart.LOL

                If It is kinda-sorta good enough why not change oil>> maybe a can of restore and leave the moter in..........take off whatever I need off firewall and cover moter to paint.

                Then cover firewall to paint moter?

                with heat paint.

                or vise-versa............... Hey thanks agiain for your thoughts!!

                I will post the wet test results......later today...........

                I was gonna go to work but it is to darn windy to even go......... I Do pressure washing and been in business for 13 years ........ so I think I might miss a weekend of cleaning my contract trks.

                SO it is a garage day!!

                dubed Stude day!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  starter was very weak turned over very slowly at the end of the test >> (back holes )

                  lil. bit of oil added to each cyld. and the reading was 110
                  the back 2 cyld's were 90 something BUT it was hardly turning........ I know it's not the batt. b/c it is brand new Plus it had the charger on while I was doing the test.

                  Even before all this monkey 'ing around it was very weak. Had to "bang" the starter to get it to turn over and start.

                  SO I will take it to get re-built.

                  got the grill and frt. bumper off and Im really thinking about just pressure washing everything and doing a "Sherwin Williams" over haul.

                  There is however lots of packed oil underneath the engine...... Head gasget shows no sign of any leak. I am guessing that the bulk of the oil is from oil pan. But that looks like a nightmare to take off with out pulling the moter.

                  There is no or very little oil on the right side of moter.. ( pass-side) SO Im guessing maybe who-ever added oil could not hit that big opening......>> maybe <<

                  There is no oil what-so - ever on the floor of my garage and the level is at the proper level.


                  HELP ME IM GOING INSANE AND CANT STOP TYPING

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe you could try pressure washing the engine? Just a suggestion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Before you commit that starter to a rebuild, check to see that all the battery & starter cables are the right size (gage) and that the connections on each end of these cables is nice and clean and secure.
                      You might be amazed at how the starter turns when all the connections are clean, tight and the cables are the proper (6volt) size.
                      For a quick test, put the plugs back in and spin the engine with the starter for 20 seconds or so. Then using your hand - check to see if any of the large cables feel warm to the touch. Same for where each one connects. If it's warm, there's a problem.

                      Miscreant at large.

                      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                      1960 Larkvertible V8
                      1958 Provincial wagon
                      1953 Commander coupe
                      1957 President 2-dr
                      1955 President State
                      1951 Champion Biz cpe
                      1963 Daytona project FS
                      No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Biggs I will try that.

                        okay stupid Question # 99 >>

                        I dont see nor did I trace it But is the push button on the floor under the clutch pedal .......... Elec? or is it mechanical ?
                        se told `ya it was a stupid one ***!!!
                        im speaking of the starter switch.

                        I know IF i start checking it out Im sure I can find the answer bUt I think Im in for the night .........Kids (young men ) are home and brought a couple movies........... besides I have a stude head-ache

                        Boy the wires are very nasty! frayed ( spelling ) bare wires EVERWHERE!! kinda looks like Ole studey went cheep on the wire department back in the day..........>><< LOL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's an electrical switch. Should have only one wire going to it. The switch has one side internally grounded and when you depress the clutch far enough to operate the switch, it's interal contact closes and connects that ground to the little terminal on the starter solenoid (the round thing mounted on top of the starter). This ground causes the solenoid to actuate and provide cranking amps to the starter motor.

                          That cloth-over-rubber insulation served well for many years. They stopped using it, for the most part, with the '54 models. It's just dried up and deteriorated with age. It was fine when it was fresh. When you think about it (in my case anyway), I got a number of original parts that are failing already (no warranty either[xx(]) It's a heck of alot cheaper to buy a new wiring harness for your Stude than it is for me to have a knee or hip joint replacement![V]

                          Miscreant at large.

                          1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                          1960 Larkvertible V8
                          1958 Provincial wagon
                          1953 Commander coupe
                          1957 President 2-dr
                          1955 President State
                          1951 Champion Biz cpe
                          1963 Daytona project FS
                          No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I thought it was elec.....Didnt have time today to even go out and work on it.

                            WHy did stude put it under the clutch>?

                            seems like everytime you press the clutch you would engage the starter...........I think I gonna put a push button on the dash.


                            Anybody ever have any luck putting restore in the engine?

                            or is it a waste?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by Mr. Dan0

                              I thought it was elec.....Didnt have time today to even go out and work on it.

                              WHy did stude put it under the clutch>?

                              seems like everytime you press the clutch you would engage the starter...........I think I gonna put a push button on the dash.


                              Anybody ever have any luck putting restore in the engine?

                              or is it a waste?
                              Studebaker put the starter switch under the clutch so that you HAD to have the clutch released in order to start the engine. You are supposed to work it by depressing the clutch pedal all the way. It normally causes no problems shifting gears, since you soon get used to depressing the clutch only far enough to disengage it; you can FEEL with your foot when the pedal hits the switch.

                              Modern cars also have a clutch-interlock switch, too, you know. Studebaker was about 40 years ahead of the pack, is all.[8D]

                              I've usually had pretty good luck when it comes to putting snake oil into my engine; hardly ever spilled a drop[]

                              Of course, a rebuild done that way only lasts as long as the oil stays in the crankcase[8]

                              Sounds like you are talking yourself in to an overhaul. Why not pull the engine out, get it on a stand, and do a basic ring and valve job, and renew the connecting rod bearings? You could Plasti-gage the main bearings, and only renew them if they are out of spec. This would give you a good tour through the engine's innards, and the cost for parts is quite affordable. No machine-shop work needed, unless you find a really chewed-up journal or cylinder bore. New front and rear main seals, and new gaskets will make a big improvement in the oil leak department, and while the engine's out, you can hang a nice paint job on it and on the engine compartment. You won't get the braggin' rights of a big$$ overhaul, but you will get a clean, nice running engine with lots of good miles left in it, plus you will get a great learning experience, to boot.

                              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                              Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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