Re: No advertising of cars on the SDC Forums

[Laemmle]

Dick,
I have lived long enough to realize that when individuals assume positions of power, or hold dominion or sway over others often common sense takes a back seat. My post was written tongue in cheek, don't you think I know the difference between the cretins that govern in DC to our SDC board? When I read pronouncement(s) about posting for sale items within the context of this forum, and those statements run counter to plain common sense then my thoughts run to the idiocy of statements that eminate from the "beltway".
This is a forum concerning automobiles, specifically Studebaker automobiles, and as such I can see no reason (board statements notwithstanding) why these specific automobiles and or their associated parts can not be listed here.

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

Dick,

This is a forum concerning automobiles, specifically Studebaker automobiles, and as such I can see no reason (board statements notwithstanding) why these specific automobiles and or their associated parts can not be listed here.

We're in agreement there, buddy

-Dick-

[Studedude]

quote:Laemie, I think you're a little off base here. The SDC is a car club...not the federal government. It's here so that you and I can enjoy a hobby. The "Officials" are hardly Washington politicians. They give up a lot of their time so that we can have a little fun with Studebakers. Do you know any board members? Are you speaking from experience?

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by Studedude

I think you're wrong, Dave. I believe that a strong SDC forum that includes the ability to share parts and cars will be a big factor in the membership growth of the SDC. Once "hooked" here by the amount of Studebakers and parts that are available, information to get and keep that Studebaker running, and bonifide experts in every aspect of the car and the hobby, Forum newbies will quickly become SDC newbies (then experts in their own right). A growing SDC will result in more vendors, more cars and parts changing hands, and a GROWTH of advertising revenue for TW. IMHO the impact isn't zero or negetive...it's positive.

-Dick-

[Studedude]

quote:IMHO the impact isn't zero or negetive...it's positive.

Ouch! Help me re-write the poll question, Dick!

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

[Studedude]

quote:Originally posted by Studedude

quote:IMHO the impact isn't zero or negetive...it's positive.

Ouch! Help me re-write the poll question, Dick!

Never mind, think I've got it.

How much impact do you think such activity actually has on Turning Wheels advertising revenue?

-20%?
-10%?
-1%?
+-0%?
+1%?
+10%?
+20%?

Boy, this is a hard crowd to play to! (My answer stays the same.)


Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by Studedude



Boy, this is a hard crowd to play to! (

Hey, if we were an easy crowd, we'd all be driving Toyotas

+10%

-Dick-

[Studedude]

quote:Hey, if we were an easy crowd, we'd all be driving Toyotas

See what I mean? [8D]

Dave's Place
Studebaker Emporium
www.davesplaceinc.com

[65cruiser]

First, let me say that I think Bob does a fine job moderating this forum. Bob and I have bantered several emails back and forth over this "policy" and I finally decided just to let it lie--it was going nowhere. But the more I think about this and read Bob's responses to my questions--it makes no sense. Bob said:

There's nothing in there (the policy) that prevents you from posting a link to a particular car for sale that you don't own...like an ebay car you've run across and you want opinions on. THE POLICY ONLY ASKS THAT YOU NOT USE THE FORUM AS A MEANS TO SELL YOUR OWN STUFF. Buy a doggone TW ad for that.

Okay then, so what's to stop someone from emailing me and saying "here's a car I've got for sale", then I put the link up here?[}]

Nothing I'd say.

________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

[52hawk]

+ 10% Just think how many times a newbie comes on this forum,and is quickly led to the 'join SDC page' or how often a newbie is told TW alone is worth the $27.50 annual. Or "see vendors ads in Turning wheels" aye, and a big 10% !!!!

Studieous Maximus

[n/a]

I can see limiting professional spammers or full time venders, but I honestly don't see that there was a problem for them to implement a ban on all posts.

From what I've seen and from talking to Ann Unger awhile back, Most of the single stude for sale and wanted ads in TW are "freebies". She did comment saying that the flocks and parts ads are mostly paid ads, but I don't see many of those ads here. My opinion is that placing a TW ad draws a different crowd then the internet gurus. I can sell most any stude part I have easier and quicker by posting on the NG or unoficial page then placing an ad in TW.

Given my reasons above I'd say posting for sale stuff here maybe cuts TW advertising by 1 or 2 %. Its not like if a person selling a stude only has here or TW to place an ad.

Kent Fedor
SDC Member, Reed City, Michigan

[Skip Lackie]

Two sorta separate points:
First, as a resident of DC, I probably have a lower opinion of politicians than any of you do. Members of Congress occupy positions that provide great prestige, enormous ego gratification, and an incredible array of perks and other benefits[] without requiring them to "work" more than about 100 days a year. I got elected to the SDC board about a year ago, and so far, I have yet to uncover any benefits.[xx(]

Second, the debate about advertising on the SDC Website is not really about the income that the ads provide to TW. The real issue is that the board doesn't want to do anything that will reduce the timeliness, usefulness, or quality of the material in TW. A very significant percentage of our membership does not regularly peruse the SDC forum; in fact, for many members, TW is their ONLY contact with SDC. This may be partly a generational issue, but it can also be the result of their job or family situation or personal preferences. We all make choices every day about how to spend our free time -- some would rather not (or cannot) spend it in front of a computer. To the extent that the issue is age-based, it will change, so any decision the board makes must recognize that the policy may have to be revised in the future. But we all pay the same dues, and the rights and interests of those who do not choose to express their views on the Forum are just as important as those (presumably more active) members who do.

No one knows the degree to which the Web (including eBay) has affected the number of ads in TW, but we probably all agree on which way the curve is trending. Certainly it is affecting the attendance at the large, multi-make old-car flea markets like the ones at Carlisle, Pa. That said, it is also likely that many of the Studebaker vehicles and parts being offered for sale on the Web probably would not have been listed in TW anyway. And (as JDP has pointed out) sales to non-SDC members tend to increase membership, as most new owners find TW to be worth the $27.50 a year, even if they don't participate in SDC events any other way.

Bob Shaw was doing nothing more than enforcing an existing rule and cannot be faulted for doing so. In fact, I think his approach was both intelligent and carefully crafted. I must admit that I was unaware of the rule, and other board members may be in the same predicament. But I also think that it probably made sense when it was written -- it's just that it may be time to revise it.

I am only one member of the board, but I wouldn't want to prohibit the usual give-and-take about parts and vehicles for sale that are one of the staples of the Forum, and I don't think Bob was trying to do that, either. I also have no personal heartburn with references and links to vehicles that are being offered for sale elsewhere on the Web -- no matter who posts them. But crafting language that would permit those kinds of postings while still preventing the Forum from becoming a kind of a no-cost eBay for Stude nuts (and thereby eroding the content of TW) will be difficult. Much will be left to the judgment of the moderator (which proably won't make his job any easier!).

The board will shortly be voting on a new policy WRT advertising in this Forum. I encourage all members to make their views on this matter known to your board member, and the President and VP as well, if you're so inclined. Reading the postings here has been both enlightening and useful for me and presumably for other board members as well. But nothing beats direct input. And if you are dissatisfied with your board member's response, then either vote someone else into office or (better yet) run for the board yourself.

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic Zone

54 3R6 pickup
59 4E40 flatbed
64 Daytona hardtop
74 Avanti II
plus coupla parts vehicles

[Swifster]

Skip, this just goes to what I've said for the past few months. This site needs to be updated to take advantage of other revenues to offset what is a dying medium. The TW magazine is nice, but there is nothing in it that I can not find on the internet as far as resources, and just about every vendor that uses TW has a website.

I paid my membership dues for the people and club atmospher. If this club is more about TW than anything else, I can save $27.50 a year. 'For Sale' ads that have been listed here will not find there way into TW, but into other websites that don't prohibit or charge for there inclusion. And references to cars listed on Ebay would never have been in TW either. Attempts to limit any of the 'ads' limits what any member will see or be exposed to, not increase it.

In the past, I've posted links to other sites as examples of forums that thrive and make money from the sale of advertising of different vendors. I've had one webmaster offer assistance if the club made a change (he noticed all the traffic coming from this site). The same could be done here. Would this hurt the advertising revenue in TW? Only from the perspective that it would force TW to give members free ads all the time instead of once a year. I doubt that most vendors would pull advertising out of the magazine because of the fact many members are not computer literate and still do their business the old fashion way. And revenue (and memberships) could be increased by charging for internet forum advertising and making reference materials only available to paid members.

Again, this isn't 1966, it's 2006. Technology can't be stopped or ignored. I think the board needs to embrace what this forum could really be and dive in with both feet. Newer members are younger and are having the cars passed down to them. And they use the internet.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

[Scott]

It's interesting that when I took the same general attitude to the website at the museum (i.e this is the 21st century and they should be utilizing the web to its fullest), I was blasted big time by Swifster.

[JBOYLE]

quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie


I am only one member of the board, but I wouldn't want to prohibit the usual give-and-take about parts and vehicles for sale that are one of the staples of the Forum, and I don't think Bob was trying to do that, either. I also have no personal heartburn with references and links to vehicles that are being offered for sale elsewhere on the Web -- no matter who posts them. But crafting language that would permit those kinds of postings while still preventing the Forum from becoming a kind of a no-cost eBay for Stude nuts (and thereby eroding the content of TW) will be difficult. Much will be left to the judgment of the moderator (which proably won't make his job any easier!).

Skip Lackie
Board member, Atlantic Zone

I posted the item about the 55 President for sale at a high-end classic car dealer that few SDC members would normally look at. I wasn't trying to sell the car but I thought SDC members might be interested in seeing it. Who knows, it may have been a former SDC car that someone remembers...and it's fun to see what prices cars are being offered for outside the normal club venues.

Also, I'd really hate to see the "Save this Stude..." posts go away. If someone knows about a car under dire threat this is a good place to let folks know about it in a timely manner. If all the unrestored cars go to the crusher this club, as we know it, is doomed. After all, Studes aren't like Mustangs or 57 Chevys where you can build one with a catalog and a VISA card.

Sure, let's keep out the obvious commercials but let's keep an active dialog going even if some posts look like ads.