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  • disc or drum?

    I have seen folks put disc brakes on their ride.....


    What is better? How is the drum brakes on the frt. any different then the disc? and if you were to change it How would you go about it?

    Also ........... How is the driving like in the ole studey.......... how does it handel? I have only drove it up and down my driveway and to the dead end of my house...untill the brake line split. (never had it on the big road yet.)

    I am totally amazed on the shape of this `49 very little rust and never had a ounce of pud. in it ...YET

    There are only 3 spots on it where I have to do some but welding.

  • #2
    Disc brakes generally have better heat dissipation and tend to fade less rapidly as a result. They do need much higher pressure, though. Disc brakes without a brake booster is not a happy thought.
    It becomes a question of driving style and habits, really.
    Regards,
    /H

    Comment


    • #3
      Dan,

      That '49 is old technology. Older (suspension-wise) than the able suspension that Stude introduced in 1951 and kept right thru 1966 (the end[xx(]) As it is, it's going to offer roadability to be sure. But don't expect it to "handle" much. Unlike '50 and later Studes (and some 40s Commanders) it doesn't have even a wimpy sway bar up front.
      This isn't to say it'll be inherently dangerous to drive[}]. But it will be predictably rubbery in anything but rather sedate manuvers. Remember, only racers in the late 40s, drove like the idiots on today's hiways do!
      As to the brakes - figure if you're gonna try to drive like today's idiots - you'll wanna upgrade them somehow. The Champion brakes are fine - again, for a sedately driven car. But on the roads of today - you're gonna want improvement.
      In the case of your Champion, you can't bolt on later Stude V8 drum (or Stude disc) brakes as you can with '51 and later cars. And the aftermarket disc conversions aren't engineered for anything pre-51 as well.[V] SO... You might be braking (play on spelling intended[:I]) new ground by retro-fitting some sort of Disc brakes to your car. That's what I'd do tho - upgrade.
      The suspension is probably up to the task if it's in good shape and you keep it lubricated. Of course, if you went with more motor up front, that big leaf spring is gonna want some help tackling extra weight. That MAY or may not be so easy to address. I don't know of anyone that's done it.[|)] Maybe someone else on the forum will chime in with knowledge of such.
      And, of course, I've approached this, so far, from a purely "use-what-you've-got" angle. I'm sure someone will offer up sub-framing or totally re-framing with the underpinnings of an S-10 or some such. Predictably, I'll take heat or ribbing for even mentioning adapting Brand X parts to a Stude. But to deny that has advantage would be hypocritical. I have aftermarket disc brakes on my Stude truck and I think they're great.
      Talk about diabolical![:0] I even have a Rambler safety switch employed as a back-up lite switch on the truck![xx(] I'm prepping myself for the stint I'm gonna do in Hades for that transgression![}]
      Kidding aside, I've driven ALOT of vintage, stock autos in my time. Everything from Model Ts to supercharged Duesenbergs. And I'm talking out on the freeway - not just around a parking lot or on and off a car hauler.
      Most all of them paled by comparison to today's cars in the realm of handling and braking. But while I enjoyed driving them HARD a bit - to sort of get a feel for what legend had recorded from the "good ol' days", I also drove them with an eye for the prevailing conditions and traffic.
      I've done 140MPH on an Atlanta freeway in an Aston-Martin DB5 coupe and pushed 160 in a Ferrari on I-75. Both with the safety margin borne of awareness for the "what if" factor.
      I've had the pleasure of driving a big '33 Packard touring car at WAY more speed than it's designers ever forsaw it enduring (Thank you, Franklin overdrive[^]).
      I've drag raced a 390 Ford LTD with a Deusenberg SJ tourer and walked away from the Ford. Shameless name-dropping, I know[V] Point is, I always pushed this vintage iron when I felt conditions were as forgiving as possible should something go a-wry[)]

      Miscreant at large.

      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
      1960 Larkvertible V8
      1958 Provincial wagon
      1953 Commander coupe
      1957 President 2-dr
      1955 President State
      1951 Champion Biz cpe
      1963 Daytona project FS
      No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

      Comment


      • #4
        Like Mr. Biggs said, you can definately push an old car hard. Driving hard is a relevant term though.

        In really loose terms these things are equal as far as handling.

        Pushing a 40s - 50s car to its limit = pushing a 60s-70s car hard = Sunday drive in a 2000s car.

        But, that is where you can get more fun at a safer speed. You can probably "hang it out" in a turn at 40mph in your 49, where a new BMW M3 would take the same turn at 110+mph. I'd much rather run out of skill halfway through a turn at 40mph then 110mph.

        Now on to brakes. This is generic, since I don't have any Stude experience....yet. I have had muscle cars with drums. They are usually fine for cruising small roads. Depending on the car, they can be downright suicidal at todays highway speeds. Don't forget, the guy in front of you will almost always have disc brakes. He will be stopping a lot faster than you can.

        Disc brakes have more stopping power. They also have a ton of fade resistance. I overheated my 66 Mustang drums so bad on 3 consecutive 1/8th mile runs that the car literally would not stop. I actually had to throw it into park to save the front end. (forgive me) My 67 big block Olds would overheat the brakes on one haul down from about 75mph. I lived in LA for a while. 75 mph will not even get you up to traffic speed. I put front discs on the Mustang and it totally transformed the car. It ended up being my daily driver for over 9 years. I would never have done that with drums.

        Drum brakes also have the fun little habit of going out of adjustment and pulling to one side or the other. The Mustang was fine with this but the Olds was always needing adjustment.

        If I were you, I would totally overhaul the entire brake system. Hard lines, flex lines, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, everything. It is one system that you want to ensure is at 100%. Brake fluid attracts moisture, which in turn causes rust / corrosion, which in turn causes failure, like your split brake line.

        Discs on the front and drums on the back is usually fine for a street car.

        That's my 3 1/2 cents.

        Comment


        • #5
          And for what it may be worth...

          A power booster is NOT needed if you do some homework and get the right size piston in the master cylinder.
          Saves a lot of hassle in trying to figure out what kind of booster and where to put it.

          My Conestoga has four wheel disc's and no booster...and you don't need to be a 300 pounder to stop it.

          As the others have said...go for it, you'll be much happier.

          Comment


          • #6
            What size piston would be needed for front discs and rear drums?

            doctormap
            '48 Champion 4-door

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's a question who knows little about the frames of these older Studes, but here goes...[8D][]

              Is it possible to swap out the entire front suspension components of a 51 to a 49 and do away with the Planar suspension? Then, you could install later disc brakes.

              Am I way off base?[:I]

              ________________________
              Mark Anderson
              1965 Cruiser
              http://home.alltel.net/anderm

              Comment


              • #8
                quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

                And for what it may be worth...

                A power booster is NOT needed if you do some homework and get the right size piston in the master cylinder.
                Saves a lot of hassle in trying to figure out what kind of booster and where to put it.

                My Conestoga has four wheel disc's and no booster...and you don't need to be a 300 pounder to stop it.

                As the others have said...go for it, you'll be much happier.
                I have a buddy with a '70 Camaro with factory front disks and no power booster. It takes no super effort to stop...about the same pedal pressure as non boosted 4 wheel drums.

                With that said, engineering your own braking system from a collection of parts can be a frustrating "trial and error" experience, may never get the results you want, and could be down right dangerous. I am sure there are folks on the NG who can determine master cyl piston diameters, strokes, displacement...to match up with the right caliper and wheel cylinder diameters, strokes, displacement...come up with the right proportioning valving, residual check valves, geometery of the pedal, etc. etc. to produce a brake system that actually works the way you want it to work, but I'm sure not one of them. My advice would be to find one of those guys before you start the project.

                -Dick-
                Dick Steinkamp
                Bellingham, WA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Last months Popular Hotrodding had a good article on brakes. It included how to calculate MC bore and stroke.

                  You can always call tech lines for SSBC, Baer, Wilwood, etc.

                  You can definately have non boosted discs if you choose the right components.

                  I agree with Dick, this is not a place to guess.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    All that needs to be done if you arent comfortable with asking Wilwood, Baer, or the many other brake outlets, there's a real good book or two on automotive brakes and how to design them.

                    If I can do it, it can't be "that" hard.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by 65cruiser

                      Here's a question who knows little about the frames of these older Studes, but here goes...[8D][]

                      Is it possible to swap out the entire front suspension components of a 51 to a 49 and do away with the Planar suspension? Then, you could install later disc brakes.

                      Am I way off base?[:I]

                      ________________________
                      Mark Anderson
                      1965 Cruiser
                      http://home.alltel.net/anderm

                      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gord, If you can get a rotor off a 70-73 Dodge Charger they will fit with a change of inner bearing and seal. Then all you have to do is make a 1/2" thick dog bone bracket make some spacers and bolt the Charger calipers on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So if my main goal is to put this on the road >> This summer, it would be wise to just leave it alone. I really dont wanna drive fast anyways, I just wanna make it look like it does.

                          I am having a tough time with finding parts. everybody I e-mailed dont have what I need. ie; 2 carbs intake and such. I found the kit but not the carbs.

                          I am aslo in search of all weather stripping...........I take it any good part store may beable to work.

                          I did my first butt weld yesterday ............it was a lil. tough had a couple holes but over all it turned out gr8. Now comes some pud! This thing has no puddy in it @ all except where I am gonna make patches............even then by the time Im done with my welding I may be good enough to just grind and no Pud.........yeah right!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Intakes are available at:
                            http://www.offyparts.com/index.php/cPath/1_24

                            I see one barrel Carter carbs for sale (new) from time to time, especially at Stude meets. Perhaps someone could shop for you at the upcoming York, PA all Stude swap meet and find a pair for you (or a whole setup, manifold and all... Remember, if you add the dual carb intake, you will need to re-do the exhaust side as well...

                            Have you checked with Cathcart?
                            http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/
                            He does/has everything you need/want to fix up your engine.

                            Bill Fennessee also has all the rubber parts you need:

                            Steele Rubber Co. Has all your rubber parts.
                            http://www.steelerubber.com/

                            Try this listing of vendors to find your Stude parts:
                            http://stude.com/vendor.htm

                            Hope the info helps.
                            Jeff[8D]




                            quote:Originally posted by Mr. Dan0

                            So if my main goal is to put this on the road >> This summer, it would be wise to just leave it alone. I really dont wanna drive fast anyways, I just wanna make it look like it does.

                            I am having a tough time with finding parts. everybody I e-mailed dont have what I need. ie; 2 carbs intake and such. I found the kit but not the carbs.

                            I am aslo in search of all weather stripping...........I take it any good part store may beable to work.

                            I did my first butt weld yesterday ............it was a lil. tough had a couple holes but over all it turned out gr8. Now comes some pud! This thing has no puddy in it @ all except where I am gonna make patches............even then by the time Im done with my welding I may be good enough to just grind and no Pud.........yeah right!
                            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                            Jeff


                            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by Mr. Dan0

                              So if my main goal is to put this on the road >> This summer, it would be wise to just leave it alone. I really dont wanna drive fast anyways, I just wanna make it look like it does.

                              I am having a tough time with finding parts. everybody I e-mailed dont have what I need. ie; 2 carbs intake and such. I found the kit but not the carbs.

                              I am aslo in search of all weather stripping...........I take it any good part store may beable to work.

                              I did my first butt weld yesterday ............it was a lil. tough had a couple holes but over all it turned out gr8. Now comes some pud! This thing has no puddy in it @ all except where I am gonna make patches............even then by the time Im done with my welding I may be good enough to just grind and no Pud.........yeah right!
                              If you are not keeping it stock, upgrade the brakes. All it takes is one car pulling in front of you to find out why. The only car I've driven (a '69 Valiant) with manual drum brakes got a face full of Dodge Omni because I couldn't slow the car down in time (no, I wasn't driving that close). The two most important issues on any old car is steering and brakes. Make sure to address both of these first.

                              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

                              Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

                              1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)
                              Tom - Bradenton, FL

                              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                              1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

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