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  • what's today's Studebaker?

    another thread got me thinking... what cars are in existence now that aren't collectible yet that we may be looking back at in another 20-30 years or so and collecting like we do Studes now? looking for similar characteristics like cheap (well, if you bought them used,) well-made, and fun to drive.

    I can say right now that probably when I get old and bored I will be looking for an early watercooled VW to restore and wax nostalgic over and will no doubt piss off my neighbors to no end. I'd already like to find a 70's Scirocco and drop a 1.8T in it. I had three cheap beater WCVWs for daily driver slash project cars and I miss them all to varying degrees (pretty much proportional to how much money I had to pump into them; they were all a kick in the ass to drive.)

    A lot of guys a couple years younger than I will probably feel the same way about Honda Civics, much as I don't understand it. (there's always been some kind of rivalry, of various degrees of friendliness, between the annoying wannabe rapper type riceboys that trick out their Hondas with tacky body kits and big spoilers and 4" fart tips and the more "serious" German car fans who are perfectly happy to drive a beater looking car with monster engine and suspension work that still looks like mom's Wabbit until you check out the wheel and tire package, who just live to beat ricers at an autocross. Obviously I have a somewhat biased viewpoint <G&gt

    Any others?

    Sad thing is I don't have any rear wheel drive vehicles on my list, which means that my Studes better last a good long time. I'm a little too young to have ever raced say a Datsun B210, those don't really hold any associations for me...

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    62 Daytona hardtop
    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

  • #2
    quote:Originally posted by N8N

    another thread got me thinking... what cars are in existence now that aren't collectible yet that we may be looking back at in another 20-30 years or so and collecting like we do Studes now? looking for similar characteristics like cheap (well, if you bought them used,) well-made, and fun to drive.

    I can say right now that probably when I get old and bored I will be looking for an early watercooled VW to restore and wax nostalgic over and will no doubt piss off my neighbors to no end. I'd already like to find a 70's Scirocco and drop a 1.8T in it. I had three cheap beater WCVWs for daily driver slash project cars and I miss them all to varying degrees (pretty much proportional to how much money I had to pump into them; they were all a kick in the ass to drive.)

    A lot of guys a couple years younger than I will probably feel the same way about Honda Civics, much as I don't understand it. (there's always been some kind of rivalry, of various degrees of friendliness, between the annoying wannabe rapper type riceboys that trick out their Hondas with tacky body kits and big spoilers and 4" fart tips and the more "serious" German car fans who are perfectly happy to drive a beater looking car with monster engine and suspension work that still looks like mom's Wabbit until you check out the wheel and tire package, who just live to beat ricers at an autocross. Obviously I have a somewhat biased viewpoint <G&gt

    Any others?

    Sad thing is I don't have any rear wheel drive vehicles on my list, which means that my Studes better last a good long time. I'm a little too young to have ever raced say a Datsun B210, those don't really hold any associations for me...

    nate

    --
    55 Commander Starlight
    62 Daytona hardtop
    http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
    <h4>Nate,
    I'm with you on the VW's. I've raced an early Scirocco for a couple of years (D Street Prepared SCCA Autocross) and bought a Dasher wagon new. Great cars. My wife's current daily driver is a '05 Jetta TDI (PD) wagon with the Porsche 5 speed Tiptronic auto. Over 50 MPG on the highway and beats the stock 2 liter gas model in acceleration. In fact, with the traction control (Electronic Stability Program) off, it will fry the front tires if you floor it from a stop. Running B100 (100% bio diesel) in it. Along with the synthetic oil and lubricants that are used on this car, there is no need for anybody's oil/gas...middle east, Alaska, or otherwise. Might be viewed as a "milestone car" 20-30 years from now from a technology standpoint, just as the '53 Starliner is from a styling standpoint.



    Another candidate that comes to mind are BMW's. IMHO, Bavaria's and 6 series cars are bargins. They are smooth, powerful, and fun to drive. Even bigger bargins right now are the 12 cylinder 8 series cars (850's). All that technology, performance, and style for a tiny fraction of their close to $100,000 new purchase price.

    In the future, the M cars might be the new Studebakers. Here's my son in his M3 at Thunder Hill in Northern CA...


    Good looks that probably won't be dated and plenty of perfomance (R2 style). 20-30 years from now, they will most likely be bargins like the 850's, Bavarias, and 6 series cars are now.

    BTW, it's the Datsun 510's that are the race cars now...I don't think the B210's are that desireable. A 510 with a Mazda Rotery is downright scary!

    -Dick-</h4>
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm sorry guys but I don't see ANYTHING after the mid-70s that would be sought after. And as time goes on, there's more and more of a use it and toss it mentality developing amongst the younger generations. That, combined with the dogged efforts of recyclers, will lessen the pool of available stuff to work with.
      Dick, your observation of your bio-diesel V-dub is a step towards the day when we'll have to hunt to find service stations that still carry gasoline.
      Hell, look at that current thread about tires for the fellas 52 Champion. 20 years ago, Iaccoca's hit, the minivan, came standard with 195X75R15s. Try to find a set today! Coker's got them for $145 apiece![xx(]

      Miscreant at large.

      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
      1960 Larkvertible V8
      1958 Provincial wagon
      1953 Commander coupe
      1957 President 2-dr
      1955 President State
      1951 Champion Biz cpe
      1963 Daytona project FS
      No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

      Comment


      • #4
        With fuel prices the way they are, and the ability to run diesels on vegetable oil, right now I'd be looking for a decent VW diesel Sportruck.

        Out west the junkyards get vehicles with rustfree bodies that were wrecked or blew up, in the rustbelt, perfectly good mechanicals get junked because there's no sheetmetal left around them.
        Last year I junked a Honda because the vacuum systems couldn't be repaired for less than the car's value. It was perfectly sound otherwise.
        Soon, vehicles will see the wrecking yard because someone stopped making the computer chip that tells the thing when to run and when to stop.
        "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

        Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
        Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
        sigpic'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

        Comment


        • #5
          quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

          I'm sorry guys but I don't see ANYTHING after the mid-70s that would be sought after. And as time goes on, there's more and more of a use it and toss it mentality developing amongst the younger generations. That, combined with the dogged efforts of recyclers, will lessen the pool of available stuff to work with.
          Dick, your observation of your bio-diesel V-dub is a step towards the day when we'll have to hunt to find service stations that still carry gasoline.
          Hell, look at that current thread about tires for the fellas 52 Champion. 20 years ago, Iaccoca's hit, the minivan, came standard with 195X75R15s. Try to find a set today! Coker's got them for $145 apiece![xx(]

          Miscreant at large.
          <h4>I'd have to say that there was probably more of a "use and toss it" mentality back in the days when Studebaker was still in production. Rust prevention wasn't part of any automaker's thinking. Cars were discarded fairly early in their life.

          In 1960, to see a 1940 car as a daily driver was pretty rare...today, there are plenty of 1985's on the road (at least here).

          I think we gravitate towards the cars from those years when we were in our teens and 20's (I know I do). The Model T guys are mostly dead now. The Model A guys are few and far between. The average age of an SDC member must be at least 55 (maybe more) I think Nate's point is that the cycle goes on. It might not be Studebakers that turn the cranks of today's teens and 20 somethings, but it will be some kind of car for sure.

          IMHO, it would be great if and when the day comes that we have to hunt a little for a gasoline station to fill our Studebakers (I really don't think that will happen in our life times...at least me and you, Biggs [^]). Having to hunt a little for gas for our Studebakers, to me, would be far better than the misery it causes to rely on it as much as we rely on it now.

          BTW, Tire rack has the 195's for $87
          http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compar...10&RunFlat=All

          -Dick-</h4>
          Dick Steinkamp
          Bellingham, WA

          Comment


          • #6
            My perspective is that our Studebaker's are a truly unique breed, as most all of the other makes that were discontinued, their parent companies continued on and quickly disposed of all of their old parts inventories. It is far more difficult to obtain NOS '70s AMC parts than it is for '40s -'60s Studebaker's, thanks to the Company's immense inventory at their closing, and to Newman-Altman's and Sasco's continued operations. (and also to all of us die-hard old Stude nuts, that even back in '64 were declaring that we "would rather fix than switch".
            I mentioned my 30 years with Oldsmobile in another thread, and although that plant is practically in my back yard, finding equivalent Olds parts is a hundred times more difficult than for my Studebaker's, and the cost is commensurate, think you can still pick up a NOS '69 Olds hood for $50? or NOS grills for $25 like I am still able to do for my '64 Daytona's? I also have a '62 Ford Falcon, parts, whether NOS or reproduction almost always run higher than the equivalent Stude parts.
            Yep, aint nothing like our Studebaker's being produced anymore, and not likely that there ever will be again, those other cars that catch your eye, will likely either have near zero parts availability in 30 years, or the parts will only be available at exorbitant prices that are affordable only to the extremely wealthy.
            Everyone on this board that has the pleasure of owning a nice Studebaker count your blessings, and everyone having a 'not so nice one' be glad that it is a Studebaker, rather than just about anything else.
            Jessie J.
            '64 Daytona HT, blue
            '64 Daytona HT, gold
            '64 Daytona HT, red
            '64 Daytona HT, red
            '62 Champ
            '62 Lark
            '48 M-5

            Comment


            • #7
              I think there are a few cars that will be (or already are) sought after that are newer than 1975:
              1987 Buick Grand National/T-type. Drive one and you will believe!
              Any last generation Camaro SS
              The SRT cars from Chrysler
              5.0litre and newer Mustangs- mark my word, if you pick up a bone stock mid-late 80's 5 litre Mustang convertible and put it away, it will appreciate. I predict in the next 5 years they will start to apppreciate

              Cadillac CTS-V

              Cosworth Vegas -I believe they will climb in value in the next 10 years or so

              The A-Body GM cars from 1973-77 (eg: Laguna, Chevelle, Buick Century GS, Lemans Can Am etc)

              ZR1 Corvettes

              Plus many more.. IMHO
              Todd


              63 Lark 2dr Sedan

              Comment


              • #8
                Read the customer ratings on those 195s Dick. I did and I sure wouldn't buy some for one of my Studes.[xx(]

                Jesse, you called it!

                Miscreant at large.

                1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                1960 Larkvertible V8
                1958 Provincial wagon
                1953 Commander coupe
                1957 President 2-dr
                1955 President State
                1951 Champion Biz cpe
                1963 Daytona project FS
                No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  yeah, Jessie you are right, that is the reason that I don't have any VWs left, even at less than 20 years old I was starting to have to scrounge for parts for them, too old to be in the junkyard but too new to have any repro parts available. VW is a pain in the butt to deal with too, much rather call Dennis.

                  nate

                  --
                  55 Commander Starlight
                  62 Daytona hardtop
                  http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
                  --
                  55 Commander Starlight
                  http://members.cox.net/njnagel

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

                    Read the customer ratings on those 195s Dick. I did and I sure wouldn't buy some for one of my Studes.[xx(]
                    <h4>Yep...most folks weren't too happy with them...especially in the rain. They appear to be a tire that manufacturers install on their new cars...in most cases, they don't use exactly top of the line

                    OTOH, they are probably still better than a bias ply tire. I also wonder if they are any better/worse than the more expensive Coker (unreviewed) tire?

                    -Dick-</h4>
                    Dick Steinkamp
                    Bellingham, WA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I surmise there will be quite a few "sought-after" late model cars. Not because they are so collectable, but because they will be extremely rare! What with failed electronics and rotted out thin bodies and brittle plastic, how many will be driveable in 30 years time. Not @#&* many, that's what.
                      I have a 1986 run-about with the plastic bits literally crumbling to dust There will be virtually nothing left in 10 years time.
                      My Hawk will still be around, bar any major bad luck.
                      /H

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You're right, Hank. There's a number of Caddies still on our roads that have the plastic filler pieces missing or crumbling away. I'm not sure what vintage these are but it spans several years. Even in the wrecking yards, these are already sans these filler pieces (just ahead of the taillights).
                        And, as you say, electronics stuff is pooping out on the 15 to 30-year old vehicles. Will there arise an aftermarket industry to supply new electronic components to keep these beasts alive???[}] Might be legal issues what with smog issues and safety legislation.

                        Dick, on those tires - the ones I got about 3 years ago had nice whitewalls to them. Not WIDE by 60s standards but OK by my standards. Those cheaper 195s don't offer such. That would be a deciding factor for me.
                        Maybe the next set I get for the 60 Larkvertible will be Cokers. I'd like to see it with the WIDE whites it would have had when new.

                        Miscreant at large.

                        1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                        1960 Larkvertible V8
                        1958 Provincial wagon
                        1953 Commander coupe
                        1957 President 2-dr
                        1955 President State
                        1951 Champion Biz cpe
                        1963 Daytona project FS
                        No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have to agree pretty much with Mr. Biggs. After the 70s there isn't much I can see that's really restorable. Even if someone wanted to restore a car from the 1980s, 1990 and newer it would be practically impossible, I think, to do. The culprit is the incredible complexity of the various electronic systems in a car now. I think the new Audis and VWs are really nice looking cars, but it wold take a genius with a big pocket book to try to restore one in 20 years. I'm sure there would be good originals around, but it would be ludicrous to try to bring one back to life from a hulk, like we see done with Studebakers.

                          Besides, what's the use? My 2001 Mazda Tribute with 60K miles has cost me a bundle in the last 3 months. A front wheel bearing went out, both front brake rotors and pads had to be replaced and now the engine has to be half torn apart to replace a bad injector (thank you FORD!!!). And the stupid V6 gets no better mileage than a 1939 Champion!

                          Sure my Studebakers have problems, but they're 40 years old and have seen well over 100,000 miles!
                          "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bob/MrBiggs - There are at least two companies that make replacement bumper filler pieces for those Cadillacs. The companies use different materials (than Cadillac and than each other). They regularly advertise in places like Old Cars weekly.
                            Gary L.
                            Wappinger, NY

                            SDC member since 1968
                            Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1979 thru 1985 El Dorados, Se Villes, Rivieras, and Toronados are very stylish automobiles with plenty of creature comforts. The HT 4100 engine in the Cadillacs from 1982 thru 85 can be a pain in the butt so try to shy away from these models unless it has been pampered all of its life. Also the diesels were quite iffy. A good one was the Riviera T- Type with the Turbo Charged V-6. My preference is the Caddy of 1980-81 with the 368 cu. in. engine. The 81's had cyllinder select {known as the 4-6-8 engine}. You could be cruising with only 4 cyllinders running and the engine would allow from 6 to 8 cyllinders to fire up depending on the required power needed. Some folks had problems with theirs however, mine at 94,000 miles was trouble free and worked as was supposed to. I wish I still had it. There was always the option of disconnecting a few wires to render the 4-6-8 switching inoperable if it was troublesome. The engine was more in-famous than famous. They got a lotta bad rap. Undue as far as my experience with them. The majority of these cars, other than the Caddys came with the GM 305 V-8 but the earlier year Toronado, and Rivieras had 350's say like till 1980 or 81. There are many fine examples of these fine cars out there that can be had for 4,000 and quite a bit less. Convertibles are very nice too and were made in all The models except the 4-door Seville. These are all great road cars and share quite a lot of parts, ie. suspension, motors, and what have you. For example, the rear bumper on all 1979 thru 85 Rivieras and Toronados are identical. Get ahold of one of these cars now as they are cheap as I think they will become quite collectible in the not too far future. You probably will not make a lot of money on resale but at least you can have a nice ride to take to your local cruise-in if you don't mind owning something other than your Studebaker. Just my opinion. What do you think? jimmijim P.S. I would just love having one of these as a stable mate to my 63 Hawk.
                              sigpicAnything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

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