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  • Vin Tags

    I am in the market for a studebaker Hawk---1957,58,59,60, or 61.

    I really like these "finned" hawks. I have looked at two cars & did not buy either one for several reasons. One of the reasons is vin tag problems. When I first started looking I did not realize that a vin tag inspection was required to bring a car in from another state( at least it's required in Ohio). In fact, I'm told that it is illegal to remove a vin tag from a car for any reason. That did not make sense to me because one might need to do body work behind the tag in some instances. At any rate, the first car had the vin tag removed and it was in a coffee can beside the car. I assumed the owner removed it for the same reason as I mentioned above. The second car I looked at had a very thick coat of paint covering the vin tag and was unreadable so I passed on that one too. Has anyone run into this before? I'm basically a very trusting person but when the ownership of the car is in question, it concerns me enough to not buy the car. I could not understand why anyone would paint over the vin tag, but I suppose it could have been that they were in a hurry and did not mask it off.

    I assume that you can tell from the build sheet whether or not it's the proper vin tag?? In otherwords, the records would show the exact vin tag # and body # of the original manufacturing--and those numbers should still be on the car?? I can see how things could get mixed up a bit if say a person had several cars and was trying to make one good one, and perhaps the body is good on the one that he does not have a title for. I personally don't see a problem with this, as long as the person obtained the cars legitimately. It's too bad the Ohio State Patrol does not agree with me. At any rate, I would welcome everyones take on this subject. Also any suggestions. Thanks---Dan

  • #2
    Yes, you can get all the pertinent info from the build sheet, but that painted over VIN tag will STILL reveal it's numbers if you scrape/remove the paint from it. While the Studebaker Corporation logo on the tag won't fare well, there's no mistaking the STAMPED VIN # thereupon.
    Heh - if the seller were to balk at making the VIN # visible -THEN'S the time to get suspicious![}]

    Also don't forget that into the 50s alot of states were still using the ENGINE serial# to register by. Dumb idea, but that' how it was![8]

    Miscreant adrift in
    the BerStuda Triangle


    1957 Transtar 1/2ton
    1960 Larkvertible V8
    1958 Provincial wagon
    1953 Commander coupe

    No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, you can get all the pertinent info from the build sheet, but that painted over VIN tag will STILL reveal it's numbers if you scrape/remove the paint from it. While the Studebaker Corporation logo on the tag won't fare well, there's no mistaking the STAMPED VIN # thereupon.
      Heh - if the seller were to balk at making the VIN # visible -THEN'S the time to get suspicious![}]

      Also don't forget that into the 50s alot of states were still using the ENGINE serial# to register by. Dumb idea, but that' how it was![8]

      Miscreant adrift in
      the BerStuda Triangle


      1957 Transtar 1/2ton
      1960 Larkvertible V8
      1958 Provincial wagon
      1953 Commander coupe

      No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've reattached a "coffee can" VIN's myself without a issue. The Studebaker serial tag is not a VIN by today's standards and are only illegal to remove for the purpose of fraud or theft. The painted over serial tags can be stripped to see the engraved number and a new decal added.

        64 Commander 2 dr.
        64 Daytona HT
        63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
        63 Avanti R1
        63 Daytona convert
        63 Lark 2 door
        63 Lark 2 door #2
        62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
        62 Lark 2 door
        60 Lark HT
        60 Hawk
        59 3E truck
        52 Starliner
        51 Commander

        JDP Maryland

        Comment


        • #5
          I've reattached a "coffee can" VIN's myself without a issue. The Studebaker serial tag is not a VIN by today's standards and are only illegal to remove for the purpose of fraud or theft. The painted over serial tags can be stripped to see the engraved number and a new decal added.

          64 Commander 2 dr.
          64 Daytona HT
          63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
          63 Avanti R1
          63 Daytona convert
          63 Lark 2 door
          63 Lark 2 door #2
          62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
          62 Lark 2 door
          60 Lark HT
          60 Hawk
          59 3E truck
          52 Starliner
          51 Commander

          JDP Maryland

          Comment


          • #6
            JDP writes: "is not a VIN by today's standards" - Well, JP, if my registration has the Stude serial# as a means of tracking what tag is on what vehicle (and, of course, this is for the purpose of making sure we pay all relevant taxes involved), I'd figure it was an "Identification Number for that Vehicle" - close enough to be acronym-ized into "VIN"
            Now, does it tell you in what plant, in which country, on what shift, with what engine, transmission, emission equipment, paint, interior and number of cup holders it was built? No. But the truth is, the DMV doesn't care about HALF (or more)of the stuff the current VIN strings of numbers say. All they care about is whatever portion of it tells them the vehicle's personal number is.

            And yes, I know that plant of origin CAN be discerned as well as engine family by Stude VIN #s. Figured I'd say that BEFORE I get spanked about it.[:I]

            Not trying to pick a fight, JP - only making a point that even tho Studebaker didn't term it a "VIN", it achieves the same purpose for identification.

            Miscreant adrift in
            the BerStuda Triangle


            1957 Transtar 1/2ton
            1960 Larkvertible V8
            1958 Provincial wagon
            1953 Commander coupe

            No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

            Comment


            • #7
              JDP writes: "is not a VIN by today's standards" - Well, JP, if my registration has the Stude serial# as a means of tracking what tag is on what vehicle (and, of course, this is for the purpose of making sure we pay all relevant taxes involved), I'd figure it was an "Identification Number for that Vehicle" - close enough to be acronym-ized into "VIN"
              Now, does it tell you in what plant, in which country, on what shift, with what engine, transmission, emission equipment, paint, interior and number of cup holders it was built? No. But the truth is, the DMV doesn't care about HALF (or more)of the stuff the current VIN strings of numbers say. All they care about is whatever portion of it tells them the vehicle's personal number is.

              And yes, I know that plant of origin CAN be discerned as well as engine family by Stude VIN #s. Figured I'd say that BEFORE I get spanked about it.[:I]

              Not trying to pick a fight, JP - only making a point that even tho Studebaker didn't term it a "VIN", it achieves the same purpose for identification.

              Miscreant adrift in
              the BerStuda Triangle


              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
              1960 Larkvertible V8
              1958 Provincial wagon
              1953 Commander coupe

              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

              Comment


              • #8


                Not trying to pick a fight, JP - only making a point that even tho Studebaker didn't term it a "VIN", it achieves the same purpose for identification.

                Very true!! It appears Studebaker started using the term "Vehicle Identification Number" on the driver's door post starting in 1965. Earlier models of course had "Serial Number"

                Craig

                Comment


                • #9


                  Not trying to pick a fight, JP - only making a point that even tho Studebaker didn't term it a "VIN", it achieves the same purpose for identification.

                  Very true!! It appears Studebaker started using the term "Vehicle Identification Number" on the driver's door post starting in 1965. Earlier models of course had "Serial Number"

                  Craig

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Makes you wonder why Studebaker would have started anything by 1965! Heck if I was in charge of the plant by 1965, I am not sure I would have paid the water bill!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Makes you wonder why Studebaker would have started anything by 1965! Heck if I was in charge of the plant by 1965, I am not sure I would have paid the water bill!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I simply meant that remounting a Studebaker factory serial tag is quite different then messing with the later government required VIN number.

                        64 Commander 2 dr.
                        64 Daytona HT
                        63 Cruiser
                        63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
                        63 Avanti R1
                        63 Daytona convert
                        63 Lark 2 door
                        63 Lark 2 door #2
                        62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                        62 Lark 2 door
                        60 Lark HT
                        60 Hawk
                        59 3E truck
                        52 Starliner
                        51 Commander

                        JDP Maryland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I simply meant that remounting a Studebaker factory serial tag is quite different then messing with the later government required VIN number.

                          64 Commander 2 dr.
                          64 Daytona HT
                          63 Cruiser
                          63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
                          63 Avanti R1
                          63 Daytona convert
                          63 Lark 2 door
                          63 Lark 2 door #2
                          62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                          62 Lark 2 door
                          60 Lark HT
                          60 Hawk
                          59 3E truck
                          52 Starliner
                          51 Commander

                          JDP Maryland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think maybe you're being a bit overcautious. As long as you have a title and VIN tag that match the year and model, I wouldn't worry with a car that old. If you do feel the need to double check, the VIN is also stamped in 1/2 inch size numbers on the underside of the rear crossmember. It may be difficult or even impossible to see if there's much rust, but it is there.


                            Steve Hudson
                            The Dalles, Oregon
                            1937 Dictator Streetrod
                            1949 "GMOBaker" 1-T Dually
                            1953 Commander Convertible
                            1954 Champion Coupe

                            Steve Hudson
                            The Dalles, Oregon
                            1949 \"GMOBaker\" 1-T Dually (workhorse)
                            1953 Commander Convertible (show & go)
                            1953 "Studacudallac" (project)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think maybe you're being a bit overcautious. As long as you have a title and VIN tag that match the year and model, I wouldn't worry with a car that old. If you do feel the need to double check, the VIN is also stamped in 1/2 inch size numbers on the underside of the rear crossmember. It may be difficult or even impossible to see if there's much rust, but it is there.


                              Steve Hudson
                              The Dalles, Oregon
                              1937 Dictator Streetrod
                              1949 "GMOBaker" 1-T Dually
                              1953 Commander Convertible
                              1954 Champion Coupe

                              Steve Hudson
                              The Dalles, Oregon
                              1949 \"GMOBaker\" 1-T Dually (workhorse)
                              1953 Commander Convertible (show & go)
                              1953 "Studacudallac" (project)

                              Comment

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