Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Stuck Phillips Head Screws

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Stuck Phillips Head Screws

    I am in the process of disassembling my '48 Champion to restore it, and have had a terrible time trying to get the doors off. The Phillips-head screws that hold the doors to the hinges, and the hinges to the body, are stuck tight, and won't budge. I have tried my cordless drill with a Phillips bit, and a big Phillips screwdriver with helper, but cannot get the screws to move.

    Any ideas? Since it will be repainted someday, I suppose I could heat them with a torch, but I would like to use a method less radical, if possible.

    Thanks!

    Mark A. Pearson

  • #2
    I've had great results using a impact driver [that you hit with a hammer]. I got one to use on the same phillips head screws your talking about and it lossened them.

    Darryl C. Lewallen
    Darryl C. Lewallen Clarkesville, Ga.

    Comment


    • #3
      I was wondering if an impact driver would work on this. Thanks for the suggestion, I will stop by my favorite tool store (H.F. Tools)and pick one up!

      Mark A. Pearson

      Comment


      • #4
        A dab of valve grinding compound in the slots will help keep the bit from camming-out.
        Tim K.
        Tim K.
        \'64 R2 GT Hawk

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello, I have had that same problem when I first purchase my first studebaker. If your head is not totally gone, you may use your impact driver and some heat. I would apply some DW 40 a couple of days before your loosen. Have fun and enjoy your stude. Where are you located.

          Comment


          • #6
            When your fighting with those big door hinge screws,its time to pull out all the stops.
            You can't really get any lubricant to where it will do much good,but it can'thurt to soak everything in a good penetrating oil.
            After a good soak,and assuming you haven't already boogered the screw heads,find the best fitting,high quality bit for your impact driver,then heat them dull red.
            This worked for me.
            You ARE taking the doors off the hinges,and not removing the hinges themselves,right?
            I wish Stude had used Robertson screw heads (the square),they are the absolute best in my opinion.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have tried the impact screw driver that is hit with the hammer.
              I have tried heat.
              I have tried different penetrants.
              In a more destructive(?) mode I weld a nut to the top of the screw and turn the nut with a wrench. This works sometimes.

              The thing that has worked best has been none of the above.
              I sharpen a pneumatic hammer bit tip, position it to move the [u]edge</u> of the screw head and the hits will start to move the screw better than anything else I have tried. Take care that you select an angle that does not create a burr or protrusion that will work against you.
              I don't know why it has worked better -- it just has. Maybe the vibration does it.
              If you don't have an air compressor and a pneumatic hammer perhaps a Studebaker friend that has one will help.

              Lark Parker
              sigpic
              Lark Parker --Just an innocent possum strolling down life's highway.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've always used the impact driver and a small sledge. Believe me, you CAN twist the heads right off of these things.
                Get some GOOD penetrating oil - PB Blaster, or Kroil or Liquid Wrench and spray some around the heads of the screws (they have a conical star washer on them that gives the penetrant a chance to get down around the threads a bit) and then from the backside as well. If you remove the door panels (you probably have already), you can stick your arm up inside the door a ways and spray at the nutplates that these screws tighten into.
                It's hard to see exactly where the spray's aiming because you can't actualy SEE what it's hitting inside the door but I've found that I can hit those nut plates fairly well just by guessing at the angle that I hold the can as I spray some.
                If you twist off the heads, you'll have to drill out the remaining screw shank once you do get the door off. It's a bit tedious but it can be done.
                While I've never tried Lark's approach, I can see where it might be a good way to initially break a stubborn screw loose. But thereafter, I wouldn't want to try and "walk" one out all the way like that. I'd be using a #4 Phillips tip in an impact wrench to finish it's removal

                Miscreant at large.

                1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                1960 Larkvertible V8
                1958 Provincial wagon
                1953 Commander coupe
                1957 President 2-dr
                1955 President State
                1951 Champion Biz cpe
                1963 Daytona project FS
                No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OH! One other thing here. I've been under the notion that Phillips head screws weren't employed for door hinges until about 1950 or so. Prior to that it was slot-head screws. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?
                  I know my '48 2R17 had slot screws as did the '46 M16 I had.[:I]

                  Miscreant at large.

                  1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                  1960 Larkvertible V8
                  1958 Provincial wagon
                  1953 Commander coupe
                  1957 President 2-dr
                  1955 President State
                  1951 Champion Biz cpe
                  1963 Daytona project FS
                  No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mr Biggs......I had philips in my '52 Champion but slot heads are in my ' 50 2r5 . They sure can be fun ! I have also ended up doing what Lark Parker has ...welding a nut on the end of the screw and cooling it fast and they usualy come right out. Mind ya they ain't much good after but we do have to get them outa there
                    sigpic

                    Home of the Fried Green Tomato

                    "IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

                    1960 Champ , 1966 Daytona , 1965 Daytona Wagonaire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The history channel a couple of weeks ago said that GM started using them in the 50's.
                      The Phillips screw had appeal for faster assembly line use with power tools. (Tool stays centered.)
                      Henry Ford wanted to use them earlier like the 20's(?) but Phillips wouldn't sell the patent to him.

                      you are correct. The pneumatic hammer method is for breaking them free -- not turning them out. I forgot to mention I use a sharp pointed tip, not a chisel tip.

                      Lark Parker
                      sigpic
                      Lark Parker --Just an innocent possum strolling down life's highway.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        One other possibility that for some reason sometimes works when the impact approach won't: Snap-on sells a series of Phillips and slotted screw driver bits that fit in 1/4 and 3/8-inch sockets, including a one-way model that is designed to extract Phillips screws without buggering them up. Since you can put it in a ratchet, you can apply a lot more torque than with a screw driver. And they're very handy to safely extract those that were broken loose with an impact driver.
                        Skip Lackie
                        Skip Lackie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I had a similar experience taking my '53 apart. I don't think I ever got any of the screws out the "normal" way. Impact driver didn't work very well for me. I used a drill bit the same diameter as the head and drilled out the heads on several of them. The bit taper is a pretty good match for the countersink in the hinge so it won't drill that out if you are careful. I could then get the door off the car. I found after that I could heat the stub with a MAPP gas torch on the outside then snap a vice grips on the stub that protrudes through the plate inside the door and then get it to turn "tighter" and gradually crank it through the plate until it dropped inside the door. VERY tedius and and good place to scrape up your hands but it worked where other attempts failed. I tried to drill out some and broke off bits and easy-outs a few times too. For getting the hinge off the car body, I ended up cutting windows into the post on the back to get at the back of the cage nut on some of them since it busted loose inside and was turning in there. When the car went back together, I used anti-sieze lube on all the screws!!

                          Jeff

                          '53 Champion Hardtop
                          sigpic
                          Jeff in ND

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you are going to use heat, and it is probably the best idea, heat the head of the screw dull red and keep it that way for a few seconds to allow the heat to travel to the seized threads. Let the screw cool until it is still very warm and apply penetrant or oil which will be thinned by the remaining heat and travel up the heated threads. After the screw has COOLED use your impact driver. The heating expands the screw within the threads compressing the rust or whatever else is between screw and the threaded hinge. When the screw is cooled, shrunk, there should be some space for oil and less grip on the screw. Also, heating the screw to red heat will take the temper out of the lock washer and help release the screw. Good luck.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Heat is OK - if you're not worried about messing up any of the car's finish. And make damned sure you've removed or protected all the weatherstripping, windlace, door panels, etc.. In other words, anything that's flammable or succeptible to intense heat.[}]
                              You could even have old sound deadener (undercoating if you will) light off inside the door! Caution - Caution - Caution with a torch.

                              I've had instances where the heads of all 3 screws on a given hinge end have twisted off. Then I've gone inside the door structure and bent the nutplate retainer open at one end and extracted the nutplate so as to be able to drill out the screws on the bench, using a vise and stuff. I've also had to MAKE new nutplates when I've buggerd one in the course of drilling out the screw shanks.
                              I use the hinge end as a template for laying out the holes in the new nutplate. I drill AND tap, using a variable speed hand drill and lots of tapping lube.

                              Here's a tip for anyone trying to remove the doors for any reason - even if only to replace the weatherstripping along the front edge of the door jamb. Do not try to remove the door by taking the hinges off WITH IT! They won't come out of their recesses without a whole bunch of struggling - if at all.
                              It's sometimes tempting to try this when the hinge-to-door screws are being defiant and you find the hinge-to-jamb screws wanna co-operate.
                              Unless you have 3 sets of hands and the Pope there to administer patience, you're gonna get frustrated.

                              I've never had the most stubborn hinge screw defy the impact driver with THE correct Phillips bit (the CORRECT one - not one that's "close") and a small sledge (Truth is, I expect to twist off a head or two. I don't mind tho as I don't have a problem drilling out the old screw shanks). Once it's loose, take the impact tip and put it on a 3/8ths drive ratchet. While pushing HARD [:0] against the ratchet head to keep the tip seated firmly and squarely, use the ratchet to turn the screw out the rest of the way(Of course, you've liberally sprayed the loosened screw with penetrant before you do this). IF you have air tools, of course, you can use an air ratchet for quick extraction. Just make sure you keep pressure on the head to keep it from messing up the Phillips slots.

                              As someone else has mentioned before - USE ANTI-SIEZE compound when putting things back together. YOU or someone else will appreciate it down the road sometime!

                              Miscreant at large.

                              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                              1960 Larkvertible V8
                              1958 Provincial wagon
                              1953 Commander coupe
                              1957 President 2-dr
                              1955 President State
                              1951 Champion Biz cpe
                              1963 Daytona project FS
                              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X