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  • #46
    John, cry on and tell your tale of woe and I honestly don't mean to belittle it at all. It deserves to be told and retold and unfortunately it still happens. I know, personally, of a lot of effort put into a car only for the owner to see it judged 30 points lower in Omaha than it was previously. S**t happens! I don't like it either. Long story short, more effort needs to be put in to the judging process and resources for judges. Until judges are given the kind of resource they need to be able to perform their job with consistency, I think it is pointless to criticize them for fairness. I believe that, in the main, they try their level best. The job is loaded with possibilities for subjective interpretation and there are a million objective criteria to remember and sort out. I'm not saying judges shouldn't be held accountable, everyone that I've talked to that has been a judge, expects that. We should, however, try to stick to the constructive points if we want the issue to move forward.

    Tim K.
    '64 R2 GT Hawk
    Tim K.
    \'64 R2 GT Hawk

    Comment


    • #47
      John, cry on and tell your tale of woe and I honestly don't mean to belittle it at all. It deserves to be told and retold and unfortunately it still happens. I know, personally, of a lot of effort put into a car only for the owner to see it judged 30 points lower in Omaha than it was previously. S**t happens! I don't like it either. Long story short, more effort needs to be put in to the judging process and resources for judges. Until judges are given the kind of resource they need to be able to perform their job with consistency, I think it is pointless to criticize them for fairness. I believe that, in the main, they try their level best. The job is loaded with possibilities for subjective interpretation and there are a million objective criteria to remember and sort out. I'm not saying judges shouldn't be held accountable, everyone that I've talked to that has been a judge, expects that. We should, however, try to stick to the constructive points if we want the issue to move forward.

      Tim K.
      '64 R2 GT Hawk
      Tim K.
      \'64 R2 GT Hawk

      Comment


      • #48
        quote:Originally posted by JDP
        one judge was writing stuff down for their guide. i.e. the color of the hood latch springs, the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube. Did I mention we need a judging guide for the club.
        I guess this discussion should be in the "Judging Forum", so I apologize in advance for continuing it. [B)].

        IMHO, if things like hood latch spring colors and the type, length, color of the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube are to be included in a judging guide, it will never happen.

        Think how many thousands and thousands of details like that exist just under the hood of a 1963 Avanti. The "guide" for that little piece of judging would be a rather thick book...then think about documenting those details for the whole car...now how about every year and model that Studebaker ever built...then documenting serial number cut offs for all the running changes during each and every model/year...how about documenting all the subtle build and/or part differences between Studebaker factories for each and every model/year. [:0].

        Someone (any volunteers?) probably could start on one year and one model, but by the time it is completed I will be long gone for sure. It would take years and years of dedicated research, and in the very end, much of the authenticity would have to be "declared" anyway due to lack of substantiated back up...right or wrong.

        I have ONLY heard groaning and moaning about judging...NEVER how much fun someone had having their car judged. Bob set up a special forum for judging complaints to be aired and solutions to be explored. You'd think with the majority (IMHO) of members not satisfied with the judging process that there would be active discussion on that forum to fix things. My guess is that following the South Bend meet that there will be a substantial number of posts here about how unfair the judging was...how they were "robbed"...and that SOMEBODY needs to do SOMETHING about it.

        I think some people are just happiest when they are unhappy


        Dick Steinkamp
        Bellingham, WA

        Comment


        • #49
          quote:Originally posted by JDP
          one judge was writing stuff down for their guide. i.e. the color of the hood latch springs, the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube. Did I mention we need a judging guide for the club.
          I guess this discussion should be in the "Judging Forum", so I apologize in advance for continuing it. [B)].

          IMHO, if things like hood latch spring colors and the type, length, color of the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube are to be included in a judging guide, it will never happen.

          Think how many thousands and thousands of details like that exist just under the hood of a 1963 Avanti. The "guide" for that little piece of judging would be a rather thick book...then think about documenting those details for the whole car...now how about every year and model that Studebaker ever built...then documenting serial number cut offs for all the running changes during each and every model/year...how about documenting all the subtle build and/or part differences between Studebaker factories for each and every model/year. [:0].

          Someone (any volunteers?) probably could start on one year and one model, but by the time it is completed I will be long gone for sure. It would take years and years of dedicated research, and in the very end, much of the authenticity would have to be "declared" anyway due to lack of substantiated back up...right or wrong.

          I have ONLY heard groaning and moaning about judging...NEVER how much fun someone had having their car judged. Bob set up a special forum for judging complaints to be aired and solutions to be explored. You'd think with the majority (IMHO) of members not satisfied with the judging process that there would be active discussion on that forum to fix things. My guess is that following the South Bend meet that there will be a substantial number of posts here about how unfair the judging was...how they were "robbed"...and that SOMEBODY needs to do SOMETHING about it.

          I think some people are just happiest when they are unhappy


          Dick Steinkamp
          Bellingham, WA

          Comment


          • #50
            I have been offline for a couple of days. John/JDP -Thanks for posting a dozen discrepant items in that engine compartment. I did say a half dozen (6), not 12. My main point was to prevent someone from copying the errors when they are trying to make their car correct. I do have many years experience as the SDC authenticity judge for C/K models, author of the first published SDC Judging Rules and Regulations and much other experience to back up my "self proclaimed" status.

            Gary L.
            Wappinger, NY

            1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)
            Gary L.
            Wappinger, NY

            SDC member since 1968
            Studebaker enthusiast much longer

            Comment


            • #51
              I have been offline for a couple of days. John/JDP -Thanks for posting a dozen discrepant items in that engine compartment. I did say a half dozen (6), not 12. My main point was to prevent someone from copying the errors when they are trying to make their car correct. I do have many years experience as the SDC authenticity judge for C/K models, author of the first published SDC Judging Rules and Regulations and much other experience to back up my "self proclaimed" status.

              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

              Comment

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