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NEED...58 GOLDEN HAWK ENGINE PHOTOS

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  • #31
    quote:Originally posted by JDP

    Gary said a half dozen, that's a bit of a challenge to be nit picking, but here goes on what a judge would notice. I only know because I went nuts doing a 57 golden a few years back.

    1. upper radiator hose
    2. Gold Supercharger badge
    3.Missing Packard emblem on badge
    4. radiator hose clamps
    5. Caution fan decal
    6. Should have a Willard battery
    7.Orange Hydrovac booster hose
    8 Missing Packard emblem on supercharger badge.
    9. missing service tag on tach sender
    10.Missing air cleaner decal
    11. Wrong throttle return spring style and color.
    12. Solenoid wire wrong style and routing.

    IF you think we are being picky, think how I felt losing over 30 points under hood on this car.






    64 Commander 2 dr.
    64 Daytona HT
    63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
    63 Avanti R1
    63 Daytona convert
    63 Lark 2 door
    63 Lark 2 door #2
    62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
    62 Lark 2 door
    62 GT Hawk 4 speed
    60 Lark HT
    60 Hawk
    59 3E truck
    52 Starliner
    51 Commander

    MAN...THAT IS A NICE LOOKING ENGINE ETC.....I CAN SEE HOW WHY YOU FELT BAD......BUT EVERYBODY IS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO FACTORY PICS OF THE ENGINE AND ETC.....SO HOW DO THEY JUDGE WHETHER IT IS CORRECT OR NOT???
    sigpic
    58 Golden Hawk
    DSamborski
    Pillager, MN

    Comment


    • #32
      I believe there are factory photos of the '60's cars at least. I think one is in the 'Studebaker Hawk - Photo Archive', page 107. JP's car did get too many points off for underhood stuff, in my opinion.

      Tim K.
      '64 R2 GT Hawk
      Tim K.
      \'64 R2 GT Hawk

      Comment


      • #33
        I believe there are factory photos of the '60's cars at least. I think one is in the 'Studebaker Hawk - Photo Archive', page 107. JP's car did get too many points off for underhood stuff, in my opinion.

        Tim K.
        '64 R2 GT Hawk
        Tim K.
        \'64 R2 GT Hawk

        Comment


        • #34
          Most of the judges are old enough that they have been judging the cars since the 70's or have had the info passed down by others. I know with my Survivor Avanti, one judge was writing stuff down for their guide. i.e. the color of the hood latch springs, the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube. Did I mention we need a judging guide for the club.

          64 Commander 2 dr.
          64 Daytona HT
          63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
          63 Avanti R1
          63 Daytona convert
          63 Lark 2 door
          63 Lark 2 door #2
          62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
          62 Lark 2 door
          62 GT Hawk 4 speed
          60 Lark HT
          60 Hawk
          59 3E truck
          52 Starliner
          51 Commander

          JDP Maryland

          Comment


          • #35
            Most of the judges are old enough that they have been judging the cars since the 70's or have had the info passed down by others. I know with my Survivor Avanti, one judge was writing stuff down for their guide. i.e. the color of the hood latch springs, the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube. Did I mention we need a judging guide for the club.

            64 Commander 2 dr.
            64 Daytona HT
            63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
            63 Avanti R1
            63 Daytona convert
            63 Lark 2 door
            63 Lark 2 door #2
            62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
            62 Lark 2 door
            62 GT Hawk 4 speed
            60 Lark HT
            60 Hawk
            59 3E truck
            52 Starliner
            51 Commander

            JDP Maryland

            Comment


            • #36
              quote:Originally posted by JDP
              the color of the hood latch springs, the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube.
              Did I mention that it doesn't sound like much fun to have your car judged? [)]




              Dick Steinkamp
              Bellingham, WA

              Comment


              • #37
                quote:Originally posted by JDP
                the color of the hood latch springs, the asbestos cover on the choke heat tube.
                Did I mention that it doesn't sound like much fun to have your car judged? [)]




                Dick Steinkamp
                Bellingham, WA

                Comment


                • #38
                  You need to get lucky and get reamed by the judges to get it out of your system and save your time and money in the future. A whole bunch of GT Hawk owners learned that lesson and quit competing. It's like the guy that posted the picture of the nice, but not perfect Packard Hawk engine. We all ganged up on him and proved we could find a few defects, some judges decide they'll prove they can find more defects on nice cars then the next judge. The better job you do, the harder they'll look.

                  64 Commander 2 dr.
                  64 Daytona HT
                  63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
                  63 Avanti R1
                  63 Daytona convert
                  63 Lark 2 door
                  63 Lark 2 door #2
                  62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                  62 Lark 2 door
                  62 GT Hawk 4 speed
                  60 Lark HT
                  60 Hawk
                  59 3E truck
                  52 Starliner
                  51 Commander

                  JDP Maryland

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    You need to get lucky and get reamed by the judges to get it out of your system and save your time and money in the future. A whole bunch of GT Hawk owners learned that lesson and quit competing. It's like the guy that posted the picture of the nice, but not perfect Packard Hawk engine. We all ganged up on him and proved we could find a few defects, some judges decide they'll prove they can find more defects on nice cars then the next judge. The better job you do, the harder they'll look.

                    64 Commander 2 dr.
                    64 Daytona HT
                    63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
                    63 Avanti R1
                    63 Daytona convert
                    63 Lark 2 door
                    63 Lark 2 door #2
                    62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                    62 Lark 2 door
                    62 GT Hawk 4 speed
                    60 Lark HT
                    60 Hawk
                    59 3E truck
                    52 Starliner
                    51 Commander

                    JDP Maryland

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      quoteid I mention that it doesn't sound like much fun to have your car judged?
                      I agree with ya on this one. IMO, who cares if a little tag is missing? What's the point in having the car if you spend all your time making it 100% factory correct rather than enjoying it? (As in driving it...)

                      __________________________________

                      Matthew Burnette
                      Hazlehurst, Georgia
                      '59 Scotsman PU
                      '63 Daytona HT


                      http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/


                      Comment


                      • #41
                        quoteid I mention that it doesn't sound like much fun to have your car judged?
                        I agree with ya on this one. IMO, who cares if a little tag is missing? What's the point in having the car if you spend all your time making it 100% factory correct rather than enjoying it? (As in driving it...)

                        __________________________________

                        Matthew Burnette
                        Hazlehurst, Georgia
                        '59 Scotsman PU
                        '63 Daytona HT


                        http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/


                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Oh my god, let the whining begin! If you choose to have your car judged, don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Everyone is human and hopefully tries to be fair, but there is a lot out there to learn and the learning curve is very steep. Manuals and factory photos would be very beneficial, but those aids haven't been organized yet. I can understand people being upset that they weren't treated fairly, but to paint all judges with a brush that asserts that they are all vendetta seeking spoiled sports doesn't give credit to the many people that try very hard to carry out the process. A judges job, is to find fault with how the car appears and apply that process evenly to every car they look at. You may think it is inconsequential that your car doesn't have the correct wipers or some tag or other, but if that is what the judge has on their list that day, you deserve the deduction. Moral of the story is, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Just my two cents.

                          Tim K.
                          '64 R2 GT Hawk
                          Tim K.
                          \'64 R2 GT Hawk

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Oh my god, let the whining begin! If you choose to have your car judged, don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Everyone is human and hopefully tries to be fair, but there is a lot out there to learn and the learning curve is very steep. Manuals and factory photos would be very beneficial, but those aids haven't been organized yet. I can understand people being upset that they weren't treated fairly, but to paint all judges with a brush that asserts that they are all vendetta seeking spoiled sports doesn't give credit to the many people that try very hard to carry out the process. A judges job, is to find fault with how the car appears and apply that process evenly to every car they look at. You may think it is inconsequential that your car doesn't have the correct wipers or some tag or other, but if that is what the judge has on their list that day, you deserve the deduction. Moral of the story is, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Just my two cents.

                            Tim K.
                            '64 R2 GT Hawk
                            Tim K.
                            \'64 R2 GT Hawk

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Tim
                              I personally love tough, but fair judges. For me, the purpose of the judging is to improve the quality of the restoration. My point of whining is to appeal for fairness. When you have 10 GT's that are judged 20-30 points lower at one meet then they ever had, it's pretty frustrating. It's doubly troubling when it happens after spending a year and a grand or so on picking up a few points over your last show and dropping 20. The kicker for me was that most of the authenticity deductions were undocumented so we had no way to know what we'd done "wrong".
                              I whined here and in my Turning Wheels article in hopes that others would not stop showing their cars as many of us did after 6-7 years of what I feel was poor judging by one team at the International meet. That team has now moved on and I've seen major improvements recently. Judges are human, they work hard, but we need some sort of standard in the club to make the judging more consistent from meet to meet. With a judging manual at least the judges would know what's correct from meet to meet.
                              i.e. the Avanti guy that loses points for a NOS "flash chromed" air cleaner' to a show chrome unit would not be docked, nor would I for having the correct cigarette lighter in my car. I don't mind a deduction for the staples on a rubber flap going in from the wrong side, but do mind being docked for having the right stuff or losing points for mystery items not listed.
                              I only had one full tilt, anal restoration left in me, so I'll cry like a baby until I see everyone treated fairly.

                              64 Commander 2 dr.
                              64 Daytona HT
                              63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
                              63 Avanti R1
                              63 Daytona convert
                              63 Lark 2 door
                              63 Lark 2 door #2
                              62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                              62 Lark 2 door
                              62 GT Hawk 4 speed
                              60 Lark HT
                              60 Hawk
                              59 3E truck
                              52 Starliner
                              51 Commander

                              JDP Maryland

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Tim
                                I personally love tough, but fair judges. For me, the purpose of the judging is to improve the quality of the restoration. My point of whining is to appeal for fairness. When you have 10 GT's that are judged 20-30 points lower at one meet then they ever had, it's pretty frustrating. It's doubly troubling when it happens after spending a year and a grand or so on picking up a few points over your last show and dropping 20. The kicker for me was that most of the authenticity deductions were undocumented so we had no way to know what we'd done "wrong".
                                I whined here and in my Turning Wheels article in hopes that others would not stop showing their cars as many of us did after 6-7 years of what I feel was poor judging by one team at the International meet. That team has now moved on and I've seen major improvements recently. Judges are human, they work hard, but we need some sort of standard in the club to make the judging more consistent from meet to meet. With a judging manual at least the judges would know what's correct from meet to meet.
                                i.e. the Avanti guy that loses points for a NOS "flash chromed" air cleaner' to a show chrome unit would not be docked, nor would I for having the correct cigarette lighter in my car. I don't mind a deduction for the staples on a rubber flap going in from the wrong side, but do mind being docked for having the right stuff or losing points for mystery items not listed.
                                I only had one full tilt, anal restoration left in me, so I'll cry like a baby until I see everyone treated fairly.

                                64 Commander 2 dr.
                                64 Daytona HT
                                63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
                                63 Avanti R1
                                63 Daytona convert
                                63 Lark 2 door
                                63 Lark 2 door #2
                                62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
                                62 Lark 2 door
                                62 GT Hawk 4 speed
                                60 Lark HT
                                60 Hawk
                                59 3E truck
                                52 Starliner
                                51 Commander

                                JDP Maryland

                                Comment

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