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  • Turbo and Super... charger question

    I hope you don't laugh at stupid questions but.....could a turbocharger be converted to a supercharger? I saw a discarded turbo off an '02 Internional dump truck and started thinking. Thank you. Huck, in Detroit

    Gary Hildebrandt

  • #2
    I believe the simple answer is no. A supercharger is belt driven (or gear driven for some applications) and a turbo is driven by exhaust pressure. Furthermore, a turbo needs to spin at higher RPM to achieve sufficient boost than a supercharger does being that they are smaller.


    Autumn at Lake Barget
    In the middle of Minnestudea
    sigpic
    In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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    • #3
      How big is the engine in the Internional?
      Klif

      55 Speedster
      63 Avanti R2
      63 Lark R2
      55 Speedster/Street Machine
      63 Avanti R2
      64 Convertible R1

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      • #4
        quote:Originally posted by Milaca

        I believe the simple answer is no.
        Dick Datson would disagree Brent.
        He wrote articles about using smaller turbos from cars like 2.2 Chrysler products etc. and converting them to belt driven superchargers. I believe if you look up 21st Century Turbo, you'll find some of his info. He wrote a lot of articles about his Stude performance ideas over the years. The search feature should find some threads about him also.
        As far as converting the big IH turbo, I'm not sure how well one that size would work.


        Skinny
        Watertown, SD
        Skinny___'59 Lark VIII Regal____'60 Lark Marshal___

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        • #5
          Speaking of Superchargers .... I thought about going with a Paxton Novi (gear driven) blower for my Avanti rebuild. But then after I checked pricing...I can buy a rebuilt Paxton SN-60 and then rebuild it another 2 to 3 times for the same dollars.

          John


          63R-2386 under restoration & modification
          sigpic
          John
          63R-2386
          Resto-Mod by Michael Myer

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          • #6
            Thanks Fellas, I'll get the stats on that International (correctly spelled this time) engine. Wow, I forgot about Dick Datson. I will definately look him up, as he has always been good at out the box thinking. Huck

            Gary Hildebrandt

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            • #7
              Does anyone have some of his old newsletters and stuff still, that could possibly be for scanned or for sale? I'm interested in hearing his idea's on some things.

              Dylan Wills
              [IMG][/IMG]
              '61 lark deluxe 4 door wagon
              Dylan Wills
              Everett, Wa.


              1961 Lark 4 door wagon
              1961 Lark 4 door wagon #2 (Wife's car!)
              1955 VW Beetle (Went to the dark side)
              1914 Ford Model T

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              • #8
                Yes, DD did some articles on converting turbochargers to belt drive. Think of using a belt drive and pillow block bearings to spin the compressor section of a turbocharger to 80,000 RPMs. Small turbos have to spin 80,000 to 100,000 RPMs to make boost.

                No, it won't work.

                Maybe, we should understand why the Novi, Procharger and Vortec superchargers cost as much as they do. Designing a belt drive and step-up gearing to spin the impeller that fast isn't shadetree.

                thnx, jack vines

                PackardV8
                PackardV8

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                • #9
                  And that begs the question: if you had a turbocharger fall into your lap, why would you convert it to belt drive? The turbo will do a better job of matching boost to demand than a belt-driven supercharger, which only matches boost to RPM.

                  You cab hook up a turbo by bending and welding a few pieces of exhaust tubing. Any belt-driven device that turns the kind of RPM needed to work will require some very sturdy, and accurately-made brackets.

                  Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                  Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                  • #10
                    Dylan, I have a 3" binder full of old articles by Dick Datson , and if someone wanted to take and make copy's and booklets we can work out something...Bob

                    Candbstudebakrs
                    Castro Valley,
                    California




                    Candbstudebakers
                    Castro Valley,
                    California


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                    • #11
                      Since I have a little experience in this area, let me say this: If you've got a turbo or a pair of turbos, you're light years ahead of any turbo-come supercharger. Remember, a turbocharger takes wasted energy that would have went out the tailpipe as heat and turns it into useful energy in the form of boost. It takes power to run a supercharger, a turbo uses energy that would be wasted anyway. The ONLY reason why the guys with the Honda's and Toyota's whoop so much butt is because guy's with big American V8's aren't into turbochargers as much as they should be. Turbo's are the way to go, IMHO.

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                      • #12
                        Ok! If something like that happens on your end, keep me posted please.[8D] Is it a possibility you could scan and send me them if something doesn't happen? Just thinking waayyy to far ahead again....

                        quote:Originally posted by candbstudebakers

                        Dylan, I have a 3" binder full of old articles by Dick Datson , and if someone wanted to take and make copy's and booklets we can work out something...Bob

                        Candbstudebakrs
                        Castro Valley,
                        California




                        Dylan Wills
                        [IMG][/IMG]
                        '61 lark deluxe 4 door wagon
                        Dylan Wills
                        Everett, Wa.


                        1961 Lark 4 door wagon
                        1961 Lark 4 door wagon #2 (Wife's car!)
                        1955 VW Beetle (Went to the dark side)
                        1914 Ford Model T

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I guess I better weigh in too....

                          I presume that since both ends of the turbo, meaning the exhaust turbine and compressor turbine are attached by a shaft, that the work consisted of hacking off the exhaust side of the shaft and affixing a pulley with a bearing race to that end, all the while avoiding damaging the journals. If you're gonna do that, prepare for some real machine work, as well as making sure the pulley is centered and true on the shaft. As far as function, what I'd be concerned with is the scroll wheel on the compressor side, or the side that's pumping the air. Turbos and the scroll wheels on the exhaust and compressor sides come in many flavors and ratios to accomodate the application they are being used in. You might have an exhaust wheel that spins up quick, but only provides 7 lbs of boost on the compressor side. You might have an exhaust wheel that spins up slow, but will put out 7 lbs instantly. Size is also a factor. A small turbo will spin up fast but if too small the exhaust can overpower the turbo and damage it. Conversely a larg turbo will spin up slow, but given too big a size and you'll have a brief moment where nothing happens at the line because the turbo is still spooling up. That's the great thing about compressor maps with turbos, because they tell you what will happen if said turbo is put with a particular engine or engine configuration.

                          With me, I'll just take the turbo(if its good) and run with that at the moment, but that's my lack of talent side speaking there. Of course I don't mind the Youtube videos at all, in that respect of the guys making jet engines out of these things . There is also a little irony with the smaller displacement engines these days using the turbos. It was not all that long ago that the Studebaker V8's with the Paxtons were in the same boat against the big blocks . In a modified setting, yeah, you see them used in singles, doubles, heck there was that one guy with the 57 Chevy with literally a tiny turbo a cylinder. In a factory setting, well not as much with the larger displacement gas engines, excluding the diesels though. Yeah, the import guys use them regularly in the factory and aftermarket settings, the neat thing is if they work at that level of smallerrrr displacement engines, they should do wonders for our engines .

                          [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                          [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                          [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                          [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                          1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                          1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                          1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                          1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

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                          • #14
                            Everything old is new again. Thirty years ago, back before DD went into the gator swamp, he was the first to advocate using turbos on Studes. He correctly maintained the only thing Stude V8s have going for them is hell-for-stout, so use very high boost pressures to make some real horsepower.

                            thnx, jack vines

                            PackardV8
                            PackardV8

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                            • #15
                              It is amazing what a turbo-charger can do. Here's one that tops all "The World's fastest production 4 cylinder" - 221 MPH two way average at Bonneville on Aug. 16, 2006. The car is a Dodge SRT-4 with a 2.4 liter (144 ci) Turbo Charged Motor with the factory 5-speed transmission which produces over 750+ hp on gas. http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/ar....jsp?id=365982





                              John


                              63R-2386 under restoration & modification
                              sigpic
                              John
                              63R-2386
                              Resto-Mod by Michael Myer

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