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  • Trade a Packard for a Packardbaker?

    Here's a question for Forum Members: Does anyone actually know of a person who traded a 1956 or older Packard toward a new 1957 or 1958 Studebaker-based Packard? It is pretty well accepted that most 1957-1958 "Packardbaker" sales were to people who would have bought a higher-level Studebaker anyway, so they just bought an even fancier one than a President Classic; i.e, a 1957-1958 Studebaker-based Packard.

    I realize I'm probably "above-average" age for a Forum members (age 60, here[:0]). Hence, it is unlikely that younger Forum members would know someone who had traded a "real" Packard toward a 1957-1958 model when their older Packard was due to be replaced, as people were want to do every 3 or 4 years circa 1946-1970, approximately. [}]

    Still, it's a question I've never seen answered and am curious; just something I've wondered about. (I doubt that Studebaker-Packard Corporation did any studies on the matter; they probably couldn't have cared less!) [V] BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  • #2
    [quote]Originally posted by BobPalma

    Here's a question for Forum Members: Does anyone actually know of a person who traded a 1956 or older Packard toward a new 1957 or 1958 Studebaker-based Packard?

    Sorry Bob, but I did know of a few (one, a doctor) who traded for a...a...a....new Cadillac. And I'm sure you do, too with your dad being in the new car business at the time. Here's the question for you... What kind of a trade-in allowance would Palma-Rhodes Motors have given someone who wanted to trade in a 10,000 mile '56 Patrician sedan for a brand new '57 on the lot in Lilac/Arctic White?[]

    Craig

    Comment


    • #3
      [quote]Originally posted by BobPalma

      Here's a question for Forum Members: Does anyone actually know of a person who traded a 1956 or older Packard toward a new 1957 or 1958 Studebaker-based Packard?

      Sorry Bob, but I did know of a few (one, a doctor) who traded for a...a...a....new Cadillac. And I'm sure you do, too with your dad being in the new car business at the time. Here's the question for you... What kind of a trade-in allowance would Palma-Rhodes Motors have given someone who wanted to trade in a 10,000 mile '56 Patrician sedan for a brand new '57 on the lot in Lilac/Arctic White?[]

      Craig

      Comment


      • #4
        I can't imagine anyone trading a pre-57 Packard for a 57 or 58 Packard, but it would be interesting to know if someone did.

        When I was 13 years old, I went in the Packard dealership here in Richmond, VA which was Mooers Motor Co. It still exists as Mooers Volvo.

        They had two 58 Packards in the showroom, a 4 door sedan and a 2 door hardtop. I told the salesman that I thought they were good looking cars. He happened to be Mr. Mooer, as I later found out. He said "You want to see a REAL Packard? and took me out to the street and showed me a blue 41 Packard sedan. He said "This car has factory air". I wasn't impressed. It just looked like an old car to me. But I have the feeling that he would have discouraged anyone from trading in a Detroit Packard for a South Bend Packard.

        My best friend's father also owned a 55 Packard, and his son had Studebakers. Joe's father commented to us several times that we were crazy to be "fooling around" with those Studebakers as the company was going down the tubes. He eventually traded the Packard for a 59 Pontiac.

        Here is his Packard.




        Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/

        Comment


        • #5
          I can't imagine anyone trading a pre-57 Packard for a 57 or 58 Packard, but it would be interesting to know if someone did.

          When I was 13 years old, I went in the Packard dealership here in Richmond, VA which was Mooers Motor Co. It still exists as Mooers Volvo.

          They had two 58 Packards in the showroom, a 4 door sedan and a 2 door hardtop. I told the salesman that I thought they were good looking cars. He happened to be Mr. Mooer, as I later found out. He said "You want to see a REAL Packard? and took me out to the street and showed me a blue 41 Packard sedan. He said "This car has factory air". I wasn't impressed. It just looked like an old car to me. But I have the feeling that he would have discouraged anyone from trading in a Detroit Packard for a South Bend Packard.

          My best friend's father also owned a 55 Packard, and his son had Studebakers. Joe's father commented to us several times that we were crazy to be "fooling around" with those Studebakers as the company was going down the tubes. He eventually traded the Packard for a 59 Pontiac.

          Here is his Packard.




          Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

            Sorry Bob, but I did know of a few (one, a doctor) who traded for a...a...a....new Cadillac. And I'm sure you do, too with your dad being in the new car business at the time. Here's the question for you... What kind of a trade-in allowance would Palma-Rhodes Motors have given someone who wanted to trade in a 10,000 mile '56 Patrician sedan for a brand new '57 on the lot in Lilac/Arctic White?[]

            Craig
            Well, Craig,

            The question would never have come up because they weren't in business by the time the 1957 Packardbakers arrived at the few Packard dealerships still open. [V]

            Palma-Rhoads Motors was barely doing "OK" on new Studebakers, Packards, and Nashes (especially Ramblers, of which they sold quite a few) in the late spring of 1956. Quite frankly, new Ramblers and good used cars were their money-makers. They were selling between one and two new Studebakers, and maybe one new non-Rambler Nash every month. In all of the 1956 model year, they sold only three new Packards: One Clipper Custom 4-door sedan, one Clipper Super 4-door sedan, and one Clipper DeLuxe 4-door sedan. The Clipper Super was the most unusual because a farmer and his wife ordered it with push-button Ultramatic and Factory Air Conditioning, rare options for a mid-line Super. (I still have the invoices for all three cars).

            I turned 10 years old February 11, 1956, so I was old enough to hang around the dealership quite a bit, and I did. I was soaking up everything I could about a business I figured I'd gladly inherit some day, which would have pleased my Dad greatly.

            But by early June 1956, it was becoming well-known that James Nance could not get Wall Street or Insurance Company financing needed to continue with real Packards for 1957, even those that would have been based on a Lincoln body. Dad and Uncle Milt saw the handwriting on the wall [xx(] and decided they had to pack it in. Their business situation was tenuous enough that there would not be enough business selling only Studebakers, Nashes, and used cars to support both of them, Studebaker partner Harry Rhoads, and the seven young children (I was the oldest of the seven) between the three men, beginning with the 1957 model year.

            They told Harry Rhoads they were going to have to move on. On Wednesday, August 1, 1956, an auction was held at the dealership to sell off all the used cars, parts, tools, and equipment that had anything to do with Packard or Nash. No new cars were auctioned; they had no new Packards or Nashes in inventory by that day.

            I remember Auction Day very well; I spent the whole day at the dealership and had never seen my Dad or his Brother Milton so sad. Packard specialty tools they had paid a fortune for were going for pennies on the dollar. The huge vertical Packard neon sign, the one you see on Page 31 of the January 2006 Turning Wheels, had been moved from where you see it to the newer Palma-Rhoads dealership building. They had to give it away for the scrap value to someone who would take it down; the auctioneer couldn't get any opening bid on it at the auction! What would it be worth today in Packard collector circles?

            Harry Rhoads (he wasn't much of a salesman or businessman, really)soldiered on with Studebaker through a dismal 1957 and 1958, selling a few Commanders and Scotsmans. He sold a few more Larks, of course, until he went out of business, I think it was, in June 1960.

            Thus, answering your question would be difficult, Craig, but I'll try. If a customer came in with a nice 10,000-mile 1956 Patrician to trade on a 1957 Clipper, he would have to have bought the Patrician elsewhere, since Palma-Rhoads Motors sold no new 1956 Patricians. (They had sold a couple 1955s, though.) If the Patrician sold new for $3,800, I imagine they would have offered
            We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

            Ayn Rand:
            "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

            G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

            Comment


            • #7
              quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

              Sorry Bob, but I did know of a few (one, a doctor) who traded for a...a...a....new Cadillac. And I'm sure you do, too with your dad being in the new car business at the time. Here's the question for you... What kind of a trade-in allowance would Palma-Rhodes Motors have given someone who wanted to trade in a 10,000 mile '56 Patrician sedan for a brand new '57 on the lot in Lilac/Arctic White?[]

              Craig
              Well, Craig,

              The question would never have come up because they weren't in business by the time the 1957 Packardbakers arrived at the few Packard dealerships still open. [V]

              Palma-Rhoads Motors was barely doing "OK" on new Studebakers, Packards, and Nashes (especially Ramblers, of which they sold quite a few) in the late spring of 1956. Quite frankly, new Ramblers and good used cars were their money-makers. They were selling between one and two new Studebakers, and maybe one new non-Rambler Nash every month. In all of the 1956 model year, they sold only three new Packards: One Clipper Custom 4-door sedan, one Clipper Super 4-door sedan, and one Clipper DeLuxe 4-door sedan. The Clipper Super was the most unusual because a farmer and his wife ordered it with push-button Ultramatic and Factory Air Conditioning, rare options for a mid-line Super. (I still have the invoices for all three cars).

              I turned 10 years old February 11, 1956, so I was old enough to hang around the dealership quite a bit, and I did. I was soaking up everything I could about a business I figured I'd gladly inherit some day, which would have pleased my Dad greatly.

              But by early June 1956, it was becoming well-known that James Nance could not get Wall Street or Insurance Company financing needed to continue with real Packards for 1957, even those that would have been based on a Lincoln body. Dad and Uncle Milt saw the handwriting on the wall [xx(] and decided they had to pack it in. Their business situation was tenuous enough that there would not be enough business selling only Studebakers, Nashes, and used cars to support both of them, Studebaker partner Harry Rhoads, and the seven young children (I was the oldest of the seven) between the three men, beginning with the 1957 model year.

              They told Harry Rhoads they were going to have to move on. On Wednesday, August 1, 1956, an auction was held at the dealership to sell off all the used cars, parts, tools, and equipment that had anything to do with Packard or Nash. No new cars were auctioned; they had no new Packards or Nashes in inventory by that day.

              I remember Auction Day very well; I spent the whole day at the dealership and had never seen my Dad or his Brother Milton so sad. Packard specialty tools they had paid a fortune for were going for pennies on the dollar. The huge vertical Packard neon sign, the one you see on Page 31 of the January 2006 Turning Wheels, had been moved from where you see it to the newer Palma-Rhoads dealership building. They had to give it away for the scrap value to someone who would take it down; the auctioneer couldn't get any opening bid on it at the auction! What would it be worth today in Packard collector circles?

              Harry Rhoads (he wasn't much of a salesman or businessman, really)soldiered on with Studebaker through a dismal 1957 and 1958, selling a few Commanders and Scotsmans. He sold a few more Larks, of course, until he went out of business, I think it was, in June 1960.

              Thus, answering your question would be difficult, Craig, but I'll try. If a customer came in with a nice 10,000-mile 1956 Patrician to trade on a 1957 Clipper, he would have to have bought the Patrician elsewhere, since Palma-Rhoads Motors sold no new 1956 Patricians. (They had sold a couple 1955s, though.) If the Patrician sold new for $3,800, I imagine they would have offered
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                It sure is a hard question to answer after this many years, but since there were over 3000 '57 Packards built, it seems likely that at least *some* were bought by loyal Packard customers trading in an earlier Packard. Brand loyalty was a lot stronger in those days. Also, there might have been a few of those customers that didn't know or care that it was really a fancy Studebaker.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It sure is a hard question to answer after this many years, but since there were over 3000 '57 Packards built, it seems likely that at least *some* were bought by loyal Packard customers trading in an earlier Packard. Brand loyalty was a lot stronger in those days. Also, there might have been a few of those customers that didn't know or care that it was really a fancy Studebaker.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was not of an age to remember '57 or '58. Still, I had older (in their sixties in the sixties) friends who used to talk about the transition. Major Nikens' wife had a '54 Patrician sedan. She wanted to get the Towne Sedan in 57 and Mr. Nikens wouldn't allow it. They ended up with a two-door Plymouth Fury. Beautiful car. I drooled over it[] (and every other kid in the neighborhood) throughout my childhood. I even had the distinct priviledge of washing and helping to wax it on the odd day or two. The car was in immaculate shape all the way up into the late seventies when I saw it last. Green with the airplane steering wheel and immaculate interior. The only flaw the car had was a missing emblem on the left fin. Someone had knocked it off in a parkinglot.

                    Since the marque (speculation here)continued as Studebaker-Packard corp well into the sixties, It might have been a good idea to keep the Packard as the top end car. Perhaps offering the Towne Sedan and Patrician wagon? This would have given Studebaker a more rounded offering. Ah, well. Speculation in a fishbowl...


                    Lotsa Larks!
                    K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                    Ron Smith
                    Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?
                    Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
                    K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                    Ron Smith
                    Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I was not of an age to remember '57 or '58. Still, I had older (in their sixties in the sixties) friends who used to talk about the transition. Major Nikens' wife had a '54 Patrician sedan. She wanted to get the Towne Sedan in 57 and Mr. Nikens wouldn't allow it. They ended up with a two-door Plymouth Fury. Beautiful car. I drooled over it[] (and every other kid in the neighborhood) throughout my childhood. I even had the distinct priviledge of washing and helping to wax it on the odd day or two. The car was in immaculate shape all the way up into the late seventies when I saw it last. Green with the airplane steering wheel and immaculate interior. The only flaw the car had was a missing emblem on the left fin. Someone had knocked it off in a parkinglot.

                      Since the marque (speculation here)continued as Studebaker-Packard corp well into the sixties, It might have been a good idea to keep the Packard as the top end car. Perhaps offering the Towne Sedan and Patrician wagon? This would have given Studebaker a more rounded offering. Ah, well. Speculation in a fishbowl...


                      Lotsa Larks!
                      K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                      Ron Smith
                      Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?
                      Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
                      K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                      Ron Smith
                      Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Since the marque (speculation here)continued as Studebaker-Packard corp well into the sixties, It might have been a good idea to keep the Packard as the top end car. Perhaps offering the Towne Sedan and Patrician wagon? This would have given Studebaker a more rounded offering. Ah, well. Speculation in a fishbowl...
                        I guess this is getting way off topic, but I always thought there should have been a 59 Packard. I did this drawing years ago.



                        Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:Since the marque (speculation here)continued as Studebaker-Packard corp well into the sixties, It might have been a good idea to keep the Packard as the top end car. Perhaps offering the Towne Sedan and Patrician wagon? This would have given Studebaker a more rounded offering. Ah, well. Speculation in a fishbowl...
                          I guess this is getting way off topic, but I always thought there should have been a 59 Packard. I did this drawing years ago.



                          Leonard Shepherd, editor, The Commanding Leader, Central Virginia Chapter, http://centralvirginiachapter.org/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Istude...
                            Your 1959 car looks just like a mid - late 60s English sedan...Rover, Woolsey, etc.

                            63 Avanti R1 2788
                            1914 Stutz Bearcat
                            (George Barris replica)

                            Washington State
                            63 Avanti R1 2788
                            1914 Stutz Bearcat
                            (George Barris replica)

                            Washington State

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Istude...
                              Your 1959 car looks just like a mid - late 60s English sedan...Rover, Woolsey, etc.

                              63 Avanti R1 2788
                              1914 Stutz Bearcat
                              (George Barris replica)

                              Washington State
                              63 Avanti R1 2788
                              1914 Stutz Bearcat
                              (George Barris replica)

                              Washington State

                              Comment

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