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1963 Avanti R2 value vs R3

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  • 1963 Avanti R2 value vs R3

    Guys,

    I would really appreciate your opinion on what a concours quality ( but high mileage)restored 1963 Avanti R2 would be worth in todays market. I know it would be no where near what a R3 would bring and the only info I have is that a "1" rated car would be worth between 25,000 and 30,000 dollars.

    This is the car I need to know about: Is this a 95 pt car or even close. Note the wheels and tires, I think it is a strong "1" but not concours quality.

    http://www.connorsmotorcar.com/63Studebaker.html

    Thanks for your responses.

    Steve

  • #2
    quote:Originally posted by Avanti82

    Guys,

    I would really appreciate your opinion on what a concours quality ( but high mileage)restored 1963 Avanti R2 would be worth in todays market. I know it would be no where near what a R3 would bring and the only info I have is that a "1" rated car would be worth between 25,000 and 30,000 dollars.

    This is the car I need to know about: Is this a 95 pt car or even close. Note the wheels and tires, I think it is a strong "1" but not concours quality.

    http://www.connorsmotorcar.com/63Studebaker.html

    Thanks for your responses.

    Steve
    The paint is much better than factory, and other than the flat black under hood paint appears to be a high point car in the 30K plus range. That paint job would cost 15K alone IMHO.

    JDP/Maryland
    JDP Maryland

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think that car is even a "2" in the classic sense. I think it's a nice driver # 3 and worth way less than half the asking money.

      Side marker lights, poorly recovered seats on a dingy interior, no power steering, metric speedo etc., etc.

      Nice driver and cruise night car, kind of what I consider my car to be. My guess $12-15K.

      ErnieR


      Island Dragway, Great Meadows, NJ Summer 2009

      Comment


      • #4
        quote:Originally posted by Avanti82
        I think it is a strong "1" but not concours quality.
        A #1 car is...Excellent. Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every area. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an enclosed trailer and when not being shown it is stored in a climate controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars. (In fact, I have never seen a #1 Studebaker of ANY model).

        A #2 car is...Fine. Well restored or an extremely well maintained original showing very minimal wear. Except for the very closest inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as a#1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows except when squared off against a #1. It may be driven 800-1000 miles per year.

        I'd say the Avanti in the link is a weak #2 or strong #3. OCPG lists a #3 at $12600 and a #2 at $19600...+40% for the R2 option.

        Dick Steinkamp
        Bellingham, WA

        Dick Steinkamp
        Bellingham, WA

        Comment


        • #5
          quote:Originally posted by bige

          I don't think that car is even a "2" in the classic sense. I think it's a nice driver # 3 and worth way less than half the asking money.

          Side marker lights, poorly recovered seats on a dingy interior, no power steering, metric speedo etc., etc.

          Nice driver and cruise night car, kind of what I consider my car to be. My guess $12-15K.

          ErnieR


          Island Dragway, Great Meadows, NJ Summer 2009
          You lost me on interior, it looks fine to me. What's dingy about it ? The steering wheel and dash pad seem exceptionally nice, and the seats look factory. 12-15K ??, I need to buy my 4 speed R2's from you, that's less than market for a car needing paint and more. Any 4 speed Avanti R2 that runs and has hog troughs will bring 12K needing everything else.

          JDP/Maryland
          JDP Maryland

          Comment


          • #6
            Dash and wheel are nice...look at rear carpet driver's side floor and carpet in general looks faded. Close look at the door panels and rear quarter interior panels, armrests front and rear, seat backs especially the tops of the seats where material may have been pieced in, black knobbed window cranks, a clock from ???? that looks like the hole may have been enlarged to fit it in the dash..

            Did early cars come without side chrome on the console or is this one just missing? And, what's the extra arm on the steering column? Not a tilt wheel...horn or add on blinkers?

            Even the bumpers look like they need to be re-done. Front is wavy and unless I'm seeing dirt the back needs a re-chrome.

            Remember, I am picking at it as a supposed number one or number two car.

            I wouldn't argue pricing with you because you are more in touch with the market but I think the car is a nice paint job on a so-so car.




            Island Dragway, Great Meadows, NJ Summer 2009

            Comment


            • #7
              quote:Originally posted by JDP

              That paint job would cost 15K alone IMHO.
              Seller said in the listing that it cost $20K[:0] I need to get back into doing paint work...

              Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
              Parish, central NY 13131

              GOD BLESS AMERICA





              Comment


              • #8
                quote:Originally posted by bige

                Dash and wheel are nice...look at rear carpet driver's side floor and carpet in general looks faded. Close look at the door panels and rear quarter interior panels, armrests front and rear, seat backs especially the tops of the seats where material may have been pieced in, black knobbed window cranks, a clock from ???? that looks like the hole may have been enlarged to fit it in the dash..

                Did early cars come without side chrome on the console or is this one just missing? And, what's the extra arm on the steering column? Not a tilt wheel...horn or add on blinkers?

                Remember, I am picking at it as a supposed number one or number two car.




                Island Dragway, Great Meadows, NJ Summer 2009
                Faded carpet is not a big deal, with new sets costing $350, the car is not a 400 point car with some minor wear on the interior. I agree about the clock replacement, but look at the gauges and bezels. That's a $1500 gauge restoration bill you don't need. The car is not flawless, maybe not a 40K car at retail, but 30K would be ballpark.
                I sold a similar car without the show paint for 27K last year, and it had some minor issues too. The paint on the posted Avanti is just stunning.

                JDP/Maryland
                JDP Maryland

                Comment


                • #9
                  quote:Originally posted by bams50

                  quote:Originally posted by JDP

                  That paint job would cost 15K alone IMHO.
                  Seller said in the listing that it cost $20K[:0] I need to get back into doing paint work...

                  Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
                  Parish, central NY 13131

                  GOD BLESS AMERICA

                  That sounds possible, Sid the GT Hawk's job was 11K, and that's a steel body.

                  JDP/Maryland
                  JDP Maryland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll let the metric speedo pass, as the destination was Trieste, Italy !! I'd like to know what that arm is for too, as the PO isn't giving up very much. The only thing I can think of is Option #63 might have something to do with it. A chrome handle instead of a footpedal.

                    [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                    [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                    [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                    [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                    1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                    1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                    1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                    1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you think those side marker lights were installed because of Italian requirements? I know that many European countries require a blinker light on that side.

                      Next part of the question...if you are not European and think they look like cheap JC Whitney add-ons how much do you deduct for a $15,000 paint job that needs two fenders repaired?

                      ErnieR

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        quote:Originally posted by PlainBrownR2

                        I'll let the metric speedo pass, as the destination was Trieste, Italy !! I'd like to know what that arm is for too, as the PO isn't giving up very much. The only thing I can think of is Option #63 might have something to do with it. A chrome handle instead of a footpedal.

                        [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                        [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                        [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                        [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                        Option 63 is windshield washers. It looks like a Lark shift lever hooked up to something. Might be just a switch strapped to the column column to blink the high beams for passing in Italy.
                        JDP Maryland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I dig the extra pint of paint from the factory that went with the car on its trip to Italy.

                          It does look like a nice Avanti. As nice as it is, and it is really nice, it is not a #1 car. Its painful to say that because it presents itself well in the pictures. Some naysayers may doubt that $20k was spent on paint, but I've seen it done when you include all the body work and hours spent doing it over and over until it has jewel like transistions from panel to panel. Too bad that they painted the engine compartment black - makes me wonder about the restoration. For a $20 large paint and body repair bill I would also have expected some rehaping of the doors to correct the factory goof of having the lower rear portions of the door stick out.

                          Thomas

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You would also need to have the area below the grill painted red instead of flat black!

                            I think the car is a beautiful paint job attached to a nice car. If the buyer wants to build a high point show car maybe he's ahead a little but there's still a lot of time and I think money to be spent and he shouldn't pay too much for this car.

                            If the buyer wants a nice Avanti with a 4 speed that he will rarely drive on the highway, wants to impress at the local cruises and needs to build up his biceps while driving than maybe the car needs nothing else and you pay a little more.

                            I never thought of high beam for the arm on the column, I bet that's what it is.


                            Island Dragway, Great Meadows, NJ Summer 2009

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by bige

                              Do you think those side marker lights were installed because of Italian requirements? I know that many European countries require a blinker light on that side.

                              Next part of the question...if you are not European and think they look like cheap JC Whitney add-ons how much do you deduct for a $15,000 paint job that needs two fenders repaired?

                              ErnieR
                              Maybe $500 to fill the small wire holes and blend the paint. I paid $600 to do one entire side of the Survivor Avanti and they blended clear coat/color cost over the factory paint so close you could not see the blend. Again, not saying the car is perfect, but I'd pay 25K in a heartbeat unless I'm missing something. BTW, here's the paint blend on my Avanti that I had to do when the owner had the door painted the wrong shade.

                              Before


                              After


                              JDP/Maryland
                              JDP Maryland

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