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63' Wagonaire Daytona Headliner??

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  • #31
    Bob:
    The headliner parts aren't that big or difficult. I'll go check the measurements, but my poor memory says the largest piece (center section) is about 38x43 inches. The front and rear pieces are about the same size. They don't need to be joined to anything, they just mount into the roof with trim and glue. Even the shop manual states that the pieces will be destroyed if you need to service the sliding roof mechanism. There are two more small pieces on each side above the rear quarter windows. They could all be shipped in a flat box of about 42x45x 1.5" or less, not much weight.

    I'll go check dimensions this week, as well as the dot pattern. I can generate an AutoCad file to make a screen for the dot pattern.

    The original material was two thin layers of paper or cardboard with a foam layer between. They were either pressed flat or a roller with a square pattern was passed over the pieces to crush the foam into the waffle pattern. I'm sure the dots were printed on the flat material before it was embossed. The waffle embossing allowed the flat sheets to be formed into the front of the passenger compartment without visible wrinkling.

    Incidentally, in my '65 Wagonaire, some previous owner - the kind that used baling wire, chewing gum, and floor tile adhesive - re-attached the sagging headliner to the steel roof by inserting a piece of acoustic ceiling tile coated on both sides with floor tile adhesive, then used a roller to put on flat white ceiling paint over the water stains. Looks terrible, but I have nothing to replace it with. The sliding roof scrapes the middle headliner if I open it all the way. I'm all for a project to make some kind of replacements. But, as I said, '64 GT Hawk perforated white vinyl on top of .093" thick ABS plastic sheet looks better and better every day. A 48x96" sheet of ABS is about $40.



    And, yes, some American Motors cars of the early '60s also used exactly the same material from the same supplier - and the AMC owners ran out of the stuff a long time ago. Been there, tried that!

    [img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/indy/gary_indycar25_vvsm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
    Dartmouth, Mass.
    '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
    '48 M5
    '65 Wagonaire Commander
    '63 Wagonaire Standard
    web site at http://www.studegarage.com
    Gary Ash
    Dartmouth, Mass.

    '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
    ’41 Commander Land Cruiser
    '48 M5
    '65 Wagonaire Commander
    '63 Wagonaire Standard
    web site at http://www.studegarage.com

    Comment


    • #32
      Anyone figure just how many Wagonaires are out there ?
      This may or may not be a profitable project for a vender???

      [IMG]Home of the Fried Green Tomato
      "IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

      1960 Champ
      1964 Daytona HT
      sigpic

      Home of the Fried Green Tomato

      "IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

      1960 Champ , 1966 Daytona , 1965 Daytona Wagonaire

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      • #33
        quote:Originally posted by garyash

        '64 GT Hawk perforated white vinyl on top of .093" thick ABS plastic sheet looks better and better every day.
        Thanks for your input, Gary.

        Your idea with the ABS still leaves the problem of satisfactorily forming the curved area in the front...

        Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
        Parish, central NY 13131

        "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

        "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



        Comment


        • #34
          This afternoon I was out back with the tractor and disc. At one point I swung around where that 63 Wagonaire had been sitting just a month or so ago.
          On the ground were several scraps of headliner that I'd cleared out and I stopped to pick up a piece. It had been a long time since I'd assessed that stuff with an eye to figuring out some sort of replacement.
          As I mentioned earlier, the front section with it's compound curves was proving to be a challenge. What I'd long since forgotten that I'd concluded back then was....... the impressed grid pattern of the stuff is a good part of the reason it could conform to the aforementioned compound curves! Likewise, this quality of it allowed it to fit Rambler American roofs - even tho they were anything but flat or one-dimensional.[}]

          1957 Transtar 1/2ton
          1963 Cruiser
          1960 Larkvertible V8
          1958 Provincial wagon
          1953 Commander coupe
          1957 President two door

          No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

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          • #35
            This is getting interesting. I am sure someone within the club will come up with a suitable fix. jimmijim
            sigpicAnything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

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            • #36
              If some one was to take on this project, fiberglass repro, I could part with these as templates.
              As to Gary's point using hawk headliner, I used that on mahogany door skin with a thin layer of foam material between the panel and the roof.






              Bill Foy
              Kingston, Ontario
              1964 Wagonaire Slider
              Bill Foy
              1000 Islands, Ontario
              1953 Starlight Coupe

              Comment


              • #37
                Great job, Bill! It's nice to see that it actually looks very good and can be done without fancy tooling. I was trying to remember if Malcom Berry did something similar in his Wagonaire. Was it necessary to glue the mahogany to the roof or was it stiff enough to support itself?

                How did you work it in the very front? Can we see some close-ups of the front corners?

                As to BAMS comments about how to form the ABS to the shape of the front of the car, a sheet of 1/8" thickness is heated gently, then vacuum formed into a mold. If you go to the Roddoors web site, you can see the nice molded ABS headliner parts they make for the M truck and C-cab trucks. Those have lots of curvature molded in, as well as other detail. I tried calling Roddoors today (Wednesday, April 1), but they are away at some car show at Charlotte Speedway this week and weekend. Does anyone have a Wagonaire in NC that can drive to that show and ask them about making some pieces. Their shop is in Rocky Mount, NC. Any Wagonaire guys near there? Otherwise, we could always have someone cut the front part of the roof off a junker and deliver it to Roddoors for them to make a mold from it. Since the Wagonaires use different windshields from sedans, it might have to be a roof from a wagon. As we can see from Bill's photos, only the front piece needs shaping.

                I think we're making progress here. Fascinating!


                [img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/indy/gary_indycar25_vvsm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
                Dartmouth, Mass.
                '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
                '48 M5
                '65 Wagonaire Commander
                '63 Wagonaire Standard
                web site at http://www.studegarage.com
                Gary Ash
                Dartmouth, Mass.

                '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
                ’41 Commander Land Cruiser
                '48 M5
                '65 Wagonaire Commander
                '63 Wagonaire Standard
                web site at http://www.studegarage.com

                Comment


                • #38
                  I talked to these guys today

                  http://www.smsautofabrics.com/navigation.html

                  and they claim to be the country's largest distributor of viynl, cloth, ect. for seat covers carpets, and headliner material. They claim they have almost every type of material beit NOS or repo, for you car. I asked them about the Wagonaire Daytona, and she simply said send a sample and we'll match it up. I'm not going to hold my breath but sounded possible.

                  Anyhow has anybody ever tried this source for that particular material?




                  John

                  53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

                  57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

                  58' 3E6D Stock Sale Pending

                  61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto


                  John

                  62' Deluxe R2 4SPD.

                  63' R1 Wagonaire

                  57' Transtar 259 punched to 312 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction

                  58' 3E6D Stock 4X4

                  64' (Studebaker Built) Trailer Toter

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Good ideas and discussion!!

                    I haven't yet called Phantom myself- I was going to hold off till I saw where this discussion led. Do we agree that those of us interested should call and encourage them?

                    We have a sample to use for patterns, and it appears at least a few that would be willing to lay down a deposit if requested, right? Or, should we see what else develops be for we call? And yes, I did buy a Wagonaire that will need one (more on it when I get it here- don't want to sidetrack this thread).

                    Thanks for your efforts, JB. SMS is well-known; but I wonder if they can make them, or just supply material?

                    Personally, I've lost all interest in an original or original-style (i.e. paper) one. I think one made of a material that the inevitable leak won't damage is THE way to go!

                    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                    Parish, central NY 13131

                    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                    "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



                    Comment


                    • #40
                      In my old '63 Wagonaire, I replaced the front section of headliner, the part with the compound curves, with a scrap of headliner scavenged from a scrap Chrysler Newport, or similar big Mopar beast. This stuff is composed of a thin layer of lightly-bonded yellow fiberglass mat, with thin embossed vinyl bonded to the exposed side. Stiff enough to hold its shape, but very light, and able to be bent.

                      Similar stuff is used in some of those big passenger vans.

                      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I used old vertical blinds to fill in the rail sections of the sliding roof. They are all white but still look good. For the dreaded cardboard replacement I used fiberglas(spun insulation) backed ceiling tiles(2ft. by 4ft.). I found a burlap-type pattern at Menard's. I had to thin it with a long knife. Cuts easy and went in easy. I did the whole thing for less than $10!!! CASO's RULE!!

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                        • #42
                          Gary,

                          When I did the front section I used multiple pieces to form the outside compound curves then laminated over the whole thing cutting reliefs and feathering the edges, lotsa' work but the result wasn't bad. As always, if I were doing it again, I`d do it a little different.
                          I have a line on a possible wagonaire donor roof, i was going to mock up a interior panel and have it glassed by a local boat repair shop....but that ain't gonna happen in the short term, the ABS idea is a good direction if the cost is within reason.
                          The mahogany is stiff enough to arc over to the channels but you need to put some type of insulator on the roof to keep the rigid material from buffeting against the sheet metal, I was successful using some thin foam. You do have to watch how thick a piece you use as it can rub against the sliding section if built up too much.
                          I also came up with a good set up for replacement rollers for the roof section and it`s cheap....shower door rollers.

                          I've got a few pictures of Malcolms car, all under the hood.

                          We will be attending the Rutland show....see ya there.



                          Bill Foy
                          Kingston, Ontario
                          1964 Wagonaire Slider
                          Bill Foy
                          1000 Islands, Ontario
                          1953 Starlight Coupe

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Of course, the headliner pieces are NOT in the parts catalog! [Nor is any of the upholstery.] So, does anyone have an interiors book to look up part numbers for the headliner pieces? With numbers, the museum can look for the original drawings. That would make sizing the parts easier.

                            There are 7 pieces, not 5 as I previously thought:
                            Front section
                            Middle section
                            Rear section
                            Left and right side middle
                            Left and right side rear

                            I've got a very UGLY front section that I can trace around for a pattern, but a real drawing would be the ticket. Numbers, please!

                            [img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/indy/gary_indycar25_vvsm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
                            Dartmouth, Mass.
                            '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
                            '48 M5
                            '65 Wagonaire Commander
                            '63 Wagonaire Standard
                            web site at http://www.studegarage.com
                            Gary Ash
                            Dartmouth, Mass.

                            '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
                            ’41 Commander Land Cruiser
                            '48 M5
                            '65 Wagonaire Commander
                            '63 Wagonaire Standard
                            web site at http://www.studegarage.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Good course to follow, Gary!

                              An alternative if that doesn't work out might be to get a well-preserved set like Billy's and loan them to someone that can/will make the fiberglas repros- like Phantom or ? In that case the question would be if they were willing to do it; as mentioned, might take some paid orders to grease the wheels...

                              Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                              Parish, central NY 13131

                              "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                              "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



                              Comment


                              • #45
                                did a pattern ever happen??

                                was reading the thread and it looked like you were close, but then nothing else was there... I tried Phantom she said on her site she had a paper pattern for sale for 39.00 plus shipping I ordered and then was told she did not have the pattern so that is a no go. Still looking for that headliner replacement and would appreciate any advice... thanks, Cathy

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