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  • Bring A Trailer's change in standards

    Those of us that have been on the forum over the last few years remember Bill (Buzzard) and his great and gorgeous 1948 Champion Starlight coupe. As I don't have all the facts or remember them they would not accept Bill and Sonja's car on their site to post for auction his car for sale.

    Apparently, that has changed. Witness this posting:https://bringatrailer.com/packard/?q=packard

    Bring A Trailer promotes the site in a way to offer premier service to a seller. This appears to be part of the way they have worked their business model. This falls down as far as I can see when they would turn down a great car like Bill's but put an example that does not hold up in any way to be a quality car to sell. It looks like too many cars that you can see on Claigslist.

    I do not understand. Can someone enlighten me? Not that I plan on selling a car I own.

    Bob Miles
    My 2 cents worth, no change given

  • #2
    I get your point. And also, why would anybody do that to a Packard?
    Ed Sallia
    Dundee, OR

    Sol Lucet Omnibus

    Comment


    • #3
      BaT makes their money from the 5% commission they get from the buyer when the car sells. If the car doesn't have a good chance to sell based on the reserve required by the seller, BaT won't run the car.

      BaT has auctioned 155 Studebakers.

      Browse and bid online for the chance to own a Studebaker at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.


      They've got nothing against Studebakers or any other make...as long as the reserve is realistic.

      BTW, I ran a car on BaT recently. They accepted it right away, but they are so backed up with other cars at realistic reserves that I waited 2 months in line for mine to run.


      The Packard is certainly not for everyone (in fact it's for very few ), but "there is a seat for every ass", and BaT is getting lots of free publicity out of it in the comments section and on sites like this one.
      Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 08-05-2022, 08:00 PM.
      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

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      • #4
        BaT has been in a continual evolution since it began as just a bit of software which aggregated all the other for sale sites. That they've done something right is evidenced by their being sold to the Hearst media empire. They took it from an idea to a retirement plan.

        NEW YORK, NY (June 25, 2020) – Hearst Autos today announced the acquisition of Bring a Trailer, a digital auction platform and auto enthusiast community. The announcement was made by Hearst Magazines President Troy Young, Hearst Autos CEO Matt Sanchez, and Bring a Trailer Co-founders Randy Nonnenberg and Gentry Underwood.

        Bring a Trailer curates classic, collector, and enthusiast vehicles submitted by its audience for auction. This knowledgeable community of more than 415,000 users and more than 175,000 registered bidders vets each vehicle, giving confidence to potential buyers. The name of the platform is a reference to the familiar shorthand in classified listings urging buyers to “Bring a trailer!” for non-operational projects, race cars and Concours show vehicles.
        jack vines
        PackardV8

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        • #5
          Ed, Dick, and Jack,

          Thanks for all the additional information. I have a better understanding of Bring A Trailer. Hi Tech has never been a strong suit for me. I come up with many ideas, but they stay only ideas.

          Bob Miles
          A better understanding of things is what I seek

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
            BaT makes their money from the 5% commission they get from the buyer when the car sells. If the car doesn't have a good chance to sell based on the reserve required by the seller, BaT won't run the car.

            They've got nothing against Studebakers or any other make...as long as the reserve is realistic.

            BTW, I ran a car on BaT recently. They accepted it right away, but they are so backed up with other cars at realistic reserves that I waited 2 months in line for mine to run.
            Dick: You have used BaT and e-bay and, I would imagine, Craigslist. May we have your opinions on each from a seller's point of view and from a buyer's point of view?

            Which platform would you consider the best for each demographic? I realize what you consider better for sellers might not be the sale as better for buyers. Thanks. BP

            We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

            G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

            Comment


            • #7
              To put things in perspective, we had a member of our chapter pass recently. He was trying to sell his modified 1950 Commander Starlight coupe but was unable to do so. He wanted an unrealistic price for the car. Now that he has passed, the car is up on EBay.

              ​​​​​​https://www.ebay.com/itm/26582581726...Bk9SR_z03fTUYA

              As you can see, unrealistic pricing, no engine pictures (Ford 302) and an overall negative ad. Starting at 20K will not attract anyone even with an iconic bullet nose. Car does rung great but pointing out little flaws does not help. Start at a low price with a reserve that is realistic is the way to go. The people handling the sale wanted to start at 30K.

              I look forward to Dick Steinkamp's response.


              Bob Miles
              The point was driven home for me


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                Dick: You have used BaT and e-bay and, I would imagine, Craigslist. May we have your opinions on each from a seller's point of view and from a buyer's point of view?

                Which platform would you consider the best for each demographic? I realize what you consider better for sellers might not be the sale as better for buyers. Thanks. BP
                Dick will be along with an expert analysis, but as I've also used the venues mentioned above, I'll give a lay opinion.

                Which is best for the seller depends upon the car being offered

                If it's an exceptionally nice car, BaT, if they'll take the listing, is likely to bring the highest return and be the easiest sale. However, they discourage reserves, their current popularity has made them more selective and are taking longer in the process.

                If it's an average car, ebay is the easiest and if listed with no reserve is a guaranteed sale. Sometimes, the end result is higher than expected; more often, it's lower. Also, ebay does not vet bidders, will not do anything to assist the seller if the high bidder defaults and in many cases has become a failed system. Today, many sellers use ebay to drive traffic to their online sites and sell the cars there. ebay knows this and continually tweeks their rules, but many auctions there really aren't.

                craigslist/facebook is for cars not likely to be seen as worth the cost of shipping crosscountry. These also will attract scammers, lowballers and callers who want to talk for hours about how they once owned one like that. The best thing is it is free and there's no time limit; one can throw anything against the wall in the hope there's that one buyer for it out there.

                What wasn't mentioned are live auctions. Mecum, Barrett-Jackson, Classic Car Auction, Silver, et al, can be a minefield for the first-time seller. Their fees add up to a lot and the positioning of the car in the timeline is critical. Bob and the other auction experts have seen nice cars sold for a fraction of their market value because they were run through on a Thursday when the seats were mostly empty.

                As to which is best for buyers, remember how some cars are described as "a twenty-footer"? All cars are great two-thousand-milers. Just me, but I've learned the painful lesson, never, ever buy a car from a distance. Your desires will lead you to hope it is better than it is, the sellers too-often will bald-face lie or omit crucial details, the rebuilt engine was done in a pressure wash booth and assembled with a spray can, the shipping costs are always more than budgeted; if I can't go see it, I don't buy it.

                Bonus tip - don't go to the big auctions on the first couple of days; if you have an ounce of collector car want left in you, it's guaranteed you'll find something you've always liked and at a bargain price.

                Your opinions and results may differ.

                jack vines
                Last edited by PackardV8; 08-16-2022, 08:23 AM.
                PackardV8

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                • #9
                  Dick's answer makes sense to me. I suppose there are more old cars than people to buy them and we all see junk...literally junk on sites where the price is insane. I'm sure they have to be discriminating if they want to keep heaps off their site...however, their name is "bring a trailer" and to me, that implies a ran-when-parked clunker. Maybe with new owners they'll get a name change, but I'm not holding my breath. My '54 Kaiser Manhattan was turned down a year or so ago and I wound up selling on Hemmings. Kinda soured me on their (BaT) website but again, I understand it's their policy and it works for them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Henry View Post
                    however, their name is "bring a trailer" and to me, that implies a ran-when-parked clunker. Maybe with new owners they'll get a name change,
                    As previously mentioned, when "Bring a Trailer" was a new thing, it was just a couple of guys who wrote code to gather interesting cars from other on-line sites around the country. As they refined the concept and began taking listings themselves, they identified the weaknesses in ebay and put in place policies to make BaT safer and better for buyer and seller. Today, BaT is so well-known, few bother to physically or mentally parse "bring a trailer" no longer applies to the upscale cars they're auctioning.

                    jack vines

                    PackardV8

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                    • #11
                      Not mentioned here but very applicable is "https://www.cars-on-line.com/". As many of you know, after my negative experience with BaT while I was trying sell my '48 Starlight Coupe, I reached out to Cars On Line and proceeded to list what Bob M stated as "great and gorgeous 1948 Champion Starlight coupe". (See TW Feb 2021 front cover).
                      It took a little while but eventually I would classify it as "well bought and well sold" as I think the new owner is enjoying how much labor of love and $$$ were spent in it's restoration and certainly giving the car a much better and well deserved home than what I was able provide. Besides, people in Las Cruces NM now get to see how advanced Studebaker was in 1948.
                      Cheers,
                      Bill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Aw gee thanks, Bill... I need a new "old cars for sale" website like a hole in my head! :-) Spent a few hours there gagging on the prices guys are trying to get.
                        When my first child was about to arrive and I was a poor husband, I sold my nice Pontiac to my father-in-law and bought a '58 Chebby off a used car lot for $200. This was in '75, mind you. That same car is "worth" $20K today - only because someone is willing to pay it. Like the price of housing and virtually everything else, I'm grateful to be where I am physically and financially now in my geezer years!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BobPalma View Post

                          Dick: You have used BaT and e-bay and, I would imagine, Craigslist. May we have your opinions on each from a seller's point of view and from a buyer's point of view?

                          Which platform would you consider the best for each demographic? I realize what you consider better for sellers might not be the sale as better for buyers. Thanks. BP
                          Sorry Bob. I've been away from the forum for a few days.

                          Jack's description of the various venues is a great one. No arguments with anything there.

                          I have never sold on Craigslist. I do buy on Craigslist. It is generally one of the best places to buy. Look for the bad ads. Pictures taken with a potato, 2 sentence description. Not many buyers follow up on these and some turn out to be great purchases. One of my overused expressions is "buy local...sell global". In other words, you compete with fewer buyers if you buy cars only advertised locally. When you sell, pick a site like eBay or BaT that markets your car to the world.

                          Before BaT I used eBay almost exclusively. It treated me well. It is not the "go to" place anymore especially for a unique car (like a Studebaker) or an expensive one. I do believe that BaT brings more and varied "eyes" to a car auction than eBay does. I think the comments help lots to insure buyers that the car is adequately described. You will need to provide 150 or so pro quality pictures to get the best price. Think what you would want to see as a long distance buyer. The description doesn't matter too much. BaT is pretty concerned about insuring they don't have any liability for the sale so their descriptions are pretty generic ("The car has 4 tail lights and chrome bumpers" ). Then there is the BaT "bump". Pretty much a proven fact is that BaT gets higher prices for the cars they list than anyplace else. I think buyers feel most comfortable buying a car from BaT than any other sight unseen method. So from a price standpoint, the seller generally does very well. The buyer pays a premium but probably gets a well described, well vetted car (there are exceptions of course)

                          I have no use for the big name in person auctions. I think they are great entertainment to attend and watch. I would never take the chance to run a car at one and I'd never buy one there. There are certainly some sellers that make out fine and some buyers that get a screaming deal but I don't like the odds of either of those things happening.
                          Dick Steinkamp
                          Bellingham, WA

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                          • #14
                            Thanks, Dick; your observations are appreciated.

                            As you can see, we more-or-less agree on the "usefulness" of big-name auctions, in the event you hadn't seen my September 2021 Hemmings Classic Car column:

                            https://www.hemmings.com/stories/202...-opportunities

                            Have you any experience with the relatively new venue of Hemmings' own on-line auctions? Quite a few vehicles seem to be trading there, often for big money if the reports are to be believed. BP
                            We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                            G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Great article, Bob, and all are good reasons to attend a big name auction. Attending ANY car event can be interesting, educational and fun and the big name auctions are no exception.

                              I have no experience with any other on line auction other than BaT. My view of BaT is like that of eBay. eBay obtained "critical mass" by being the first and doing a lot of things right. There really isn't a competitor to eBay because of that although many have tried. BaT did much the same. Lots of copy cat on line auction sites but none with the following of BaT. Many folded in less than a year. If I sell another car I'll wait the 2-3 months until BaT can schedule it rather than run it on a competitor's site with fewer potential buyers and a limited reputation.
                              Dick Steinkamp
                              Bellingham, WA

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