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  • Everything was going great until......

    http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...t=DSCN4928.flv

    John's back in town, so of course we immediately started to play with the Lark again tonight. With the help of ChopStu (who provided the ignition switch) and Barnlark (who provided us with the shop manuals), John was able to hook up the ignition and actually get the engine to turn over. If you follow the link above, there's a video of the attempt. Unfortunately, we have not been able to get the car to fire, but we were pretty encouraged by our first efforts. BUT...here's the problem: after trying to get the car started several times, we turned the key and NOTHING happened. No click, no spark, no boom....absolutely nothing. You could hear a pin drop, it was so quiet. We first thought that we might have run the battery dead, but we determined that wasn't the problem. Any ideas or suggestions on where to start from here? Remember...we are entry-level mechanics (think kindergarten) here and need simple terms, if possible. Thanks in advance if you can help.

    John and Tracy Smith
    Queen Creek Arizona
    http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/
    [IMG]

  • #2
    You probably cooked the starter or the starer switch.

    JDP/Maryland
    JDP Maryland

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok, any ideas how we might have done that? Did we wire it wrong, or was it just its time? How can we determine if this is the cause? Thanks!

      John and Tracy Smith
      Queen Creek Arizona
      http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/
      [IMG]

      Comment


      • #4
        Remind me if it is an automatic, or not? If it's an auto, it just may be out of P. Easy to bump that. Check that first. Can you post a picture of the solenoid and voltage regulator right behind the battery to look at the wiring, please. After you make sure it isn't in gear, we'll discuss an alternative to the ignition switch to see if it turns over. You're cloooose...we'll get it. Plenty of ace mechanics here. JP's right, it could be the switch gave up and is shot, or the starter got hot and did the same. If we work with the solenoid terminals we'll sort that out.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, I had this situation the first time I went to school with the Lark. Got out after school and in front of the football team mind you, I go to start the car and nothing. I thought something had gone bad as well. No click, no spark, zippo, until I held the selector down in Park and hit the key at the same time. A nice fire followed by a roar and we were off[^]. The starter cutoff switch kept the car from starting in reverse, which would have made for a bad day if it did.

          [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
          [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

          1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
          1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
          1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
          1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

          Comment


          • #6
            Check the battery cables.
            Klif

            55 Speedster
            55 Speedster/Street Machine
            63 Avanti R2
            64 Convertible R1

            Comment


            • #7


              Okay here we go. It is an automatic. By the way, it didn't stop working until we went back to turn it over again. There was no smoke, no fire...just nothing. Thanks for the help!

              John and Tracy Smith
              Queen Creek Arizona
              http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/
              [IMG]

              Comment


              • #8
                All right, we feel silly. Started typing in that it was an automatic and realized we might have bumped it into gear while we were crawling around on the floor trying to start it (we're still shifting blame on that one!) It is now safely back in park and turning over again. Gee...the Studebaker Forum WORKS! Thanks, everyone!

                John and Tracy Smith
                Queen Creek Arizona
                http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/
                [IMG]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Don't feel bad...common problem and better yet, the expensive parts are working. Your wiring looks proper. Make sure the spark plug wires are correct and a good coil. My guess is the voltage regulator may be shot. It looks sad.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Okay, I'm going to throw another detail in this ring. This car is an automatic... right? Okay, there is another switch to be considered. The transmission lockout switch on the steering column. I ran into this one as well. Please ensure the car is locked in Park before trying to start and the brake is set or wheels blocked. Don't ask why I say this![:I][)]

                    The solinoid is located on the left fender. The positive lead from the Battery leads directly to it, so it's really easy to track down. The lead for the starter continues out from the other side. Now, after the above cautions have been observed, take a heavy (well insulated) wire and bypass the starter solonoid by first placing it firmly on the battery side of the solonoid and then arching it across to the opposite side and briefly touching the terminal. This will produce a bright flash and cause the starter to turn. Be careful! You can get a rather nasty burn, and/or shock, with twelve volts.[}][B)] Make sure you touch the wire only to the two opposite terminals of the solonoid (the big thick ones).

                    Do this quickly, only enough to turn the starter and ensure it works. If so, you have determined the starter functions and the problem is either a bad solonoid (should replace it anyway), the starter switch, or the transmission/starter lockout.

                    Now, you know where the starter solonoid is located and where the ignition switch is located. The lockout switch is on the top of the steering column down near where it passes out through the floor. It's crescent shaped and has a pin that rides on a slot in the steering column. The switch is secured with a screw on either side. The position of the pin must be located in P or N (on the indicator) to complete the circuit and allow the starter to activate. This pin is what usually breaks off. They're only plastic. The good news is that these switches are readily available at most of our larger Studebaker suppliers.

                    The bad news is that the lockout switch is located in a really difficult position to deal with it.[8] Hope you have small hands or are double jointed.

                    There is fairly good picture (Fig. 55C) of the switch on page 44b in the Group IV (transmission) section of your shop manual. The white pin illustrated is what usually breaks off.

                    Now, all of this about the starter cutout and backup light switch, is assuming that the ignition switch and solonoid are operating properly. The test, involving the by-pass of the solonoid, is to determine if the starter functions. So, the Starter Cutout switch is just one more thing to check.

                    Personally, I'd replace the ignition switch, solonoid, and cutout switch straight away (with new parts, not used!). Then mess around with trying to get it to run. They're just a source of problems I'd rather not deal with.

                    There's another issue with starting on a Studebaker/Ford solonoid setup. The two small wires (usually white and green) on the centre section. It's with these small wires that the ignition switch works to start your car. So... no connection, no start. These tend to corode and/or loosen with age. Check them and ensure they have a good connection with their terminals. If they're loose and sloppy, chances are, you have a bad connection. If they're excessively loose, they can be compressed a bit by squeezing them with a small pair of pliers or needle noses. Be gentle, as they're quite fragile. Most all of your wiring harness will be.

                    I hope this is clear enough and helpful. Good luck! That's a sweet little Lark you've got there![8D][:X]

                    <EDIT>
                    LOL! Looks like I took too long answering again! Well, all well that ends well!


                    Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
                    K.I.S.S. K
                    Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
                    K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                    Ron Smith
                    Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by PlainBrownR2

                      I thought something had gone bad as well. No click, no spark, zippo, until I held the selector down in Park and hit the key at the same time...[t]he starter cutoff switch kept the car from starting in reverse, which would have made for a bad day if it did.
                      John, you're a gent. Thought I was the only one, ever did exactly this... 'cept in my case, I was stuck outside one of the ag buildings and it was an Animal Husbandry major who came out and showed me how to start my Lark (in Park). Think I felt stupid? [)]

                      I blame it on the insurance lobby: this was in the mid-70s but I'd already gotten so used to having steering column locks hold tight to my keys until I shifted past R into P it never even occured to me to check the tranny lever. Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you are NOT alone.

                      Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
                      In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
                      If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you Keoni.
                        For me this was like part of the tutorial on how to operate this motor vehicle, that I evidently skipped over. What's worse is since the auto is on the floor and the key is on the same side of the wheel, I have to cross my left arm over my right to hold it in park, hit the pedal a couple of times and turn the key with my right all at the same time. Usually I only need to do this facing up on a hill, otherwise, just give the shifter a whack to make sure its in Park and hit the key.
                        At the time I first had this problem, our football field was behind the parking lot, so when I had trouble I got the attention of some of our resident Camaro, Mustang, and oversize truck mechanics(midwest town, go figure) who offered every diagnosis on the planet. If I remember right I did the simple jiggle, finger, and push in every lever shuffle(which included the shifter), and started the car while at the same time realizing it doesn't run unless it's out of gear and the whatevers circuit underneath is complete[)]. I said my Thank You's and pulled out of the space. It wasn't too embarassing, it was more like when Han Solo hit the panel on the Millenium Falcon when it wouldn't go to lightspeed [)]

                        [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                        [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                        1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                        1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                        1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                        1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          just to echo on the connection thought....Now is a good time to take a small wire brush to the battery terminals, battery ground, solenoid terminals and attaching leads. Scrape down both sides of the connections til bright. Apply some conductive gel and reconnect having checked the wires for condition Replace now what looks suspect. Do the same for the regulator and generator connections too. I am by no means an electrical guru, but in all the years of any Stude electrical issues, 90% of the time its connections....good luck and report findings

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Verify that the wire on the acc terminal and the ign terminal (on the ignition switch) are not reversed. do this by reversing them. If they are incorrect the engine will crank but it won't fire.

                            I just replaced my ignition switch and had this problem.

                            [img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
                            Tom Bredehoft
                            '53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
                            '55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
                            (Under Construction 571 hrs.)
                            '05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
                            All Indiana built cars

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              J&T, in the front of your new shop manual is a wiring diagram for your Lark. The color of the wires going to the ignition switch are coded on a list, too. Check to see if Tom is right. If all is well, you just need to check for spark and gas...do you have those since it now turns over again?

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