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Champ engine disappointment

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  • Hallabutt
    replied
    I've been on both sides of this equation. Yes I have been asked numerous times about the engine in my Four Season Roadster. I was always happy to pass on the information that it was the original engine. The funny thing with regards to the FS, is that nobody would know regardless of my answer. That's because non of the production orders for the 1931 production year have survived. Evan though people know that it's authenticity can't be checked, some still ask. Putting humility aside, the reason for the multiple inquiries is the car's pedigree. Not every car like it will demand the same scrutiny. Yes folks it's a trailer queen, but I take no umbridge with people who think that all cars need to be driven to be enjoyed. I get it, that's why I'm a collector. Most of my cars are for driving, but some are not. Some cars are built for a different part of the hobby, and those cars demand a huge premium, when they change hands.

    IMHO numbers matching is important for only a very few of the most rare, post war Studebakers. Unless it is one of those rare models, and it is restored to perfection, there is little reason to worry about it's engine number. It can also be about the story or about a famous owner. For most of the p-w cars done to a reasonable standard, or a well preserved original, it comes down to how solid it is, does it look good, and how does it drive. There is nothing that you can do about the engine, so enjoy it for what it has become.

    Bill

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  • Dwight FitzSimons
    replied
    Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post

    You would also need to check date codes on block, heads, manifolds etc to ensure they were cast within a reasonable day of final assembly.
    This is exactly true. I have compiled a list of engine casting date codes for Studebakers from the 1920s to 1964. I can provide that to anyone who asks.
    -Dwight

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  • ChampCouple
    replied
    I cleaned up the block number, and looks to read P5646. If there is a number after the last 6, it's very faint, and slightly misaligned. But I think its just the letter and four numbers.

    The engine block on the 62 frame, has the cloverleaf stamped on it. So, I'm thinking maybe it would be the better block to use, if it's in ok shape.

    Thanks for the input and advise. Matching numbers really isn't that important to me, I was just hoping it was the same engine from when I was a kid.

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  • 64studeavanti
    replied
    Originally posted by Dwight FitzSimons View Post
    To change a Studebaker engine serial number one would have to weld in the old (stamped) engine SN (i.e., weld in the grooves), then grind that smooth, then stamp the desired serial number with correct-font dies. It has to be stamped hard to (mostly) replicate the depth of the original engine SN.
    -Dwight
    You would also need to check date codes on block, heads, manifolds etc to ensure they were cast within a reasonable day of final assembly.

    IMHO, the attention to this kind of detail is what separates drivers from show/concours cars. While most Studebakers, as well as many models of brand x, do not merit this kind of attention, some do.

    IIRC, some of Brad Bez's creations have garnered excellent prices because of attention to detail.


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  • Jessie J.
    replied
    Engine serial numbers can be almost meaningless on any common Studebaker V-8. The numbers might indicate a 259 , but nothing prevents that 259 having been transformed into a 289, 304, 312, or even a 344. Nothing being changed in the external appearance.
    That little breathed on ‘259’ powered ‘63 Lark might be a sleeper, capable of out accelerating 90% of the popular Muscle Cars. I love orphan underdog ‘sleepers’.
    Last edited by Jessie J.; 12-06-2019, 10:21 PM.

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  • drrotor
    replied
    Good Grief. I have several Studebakers that are trophy winners, and I have never once had someone come and ask look at the engine number (although I never have mine judged...)

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  • Dwight FitzSimons
    replied
    To change a Studebaker engine serial number one would have to weld in the old (stamped) engine SN (i.e., weld in the grooves), then grind that smooth, then stamp the desired serial number with correct-font dies. It has to be stamped hard to (mostly) replicate the depth of the original engine SN.
    -Dwight

    Leave a comment:


  • JRoberts
    replied
    My '61 Champ has an R1 engine in it. It also has a Edlebrock four barrel carb. This was done by the previous owner. I get comments about that sometimes and as far as I know they are positive. I wouldn't worry about a non-original engine. As others have said drive it, have fun and enjoy your truck.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockne10
    replied
    Originally posted by Bo Markham View Post
    "Numbers Matching" has become synonymous with more money, more profit.

    Bo
    If you've gotten involved with Studebakers to make big money you've involved yourself in the wrong marque.

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  • Bo Markham
    replied
    Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
    I'm sure; but it would be an incredibly rare Studebaker owner who would bother; trailer queen or not.
    Grinding down engine numbers and stamping new ones runs more in the 'Vette, GTO, 4-4-2 and Porsche crowds than with Studebakers.
    Really? Without trying to offend you, to much, what mushroom have you been living under all these years? Die Hard Studebaker owners are no different then any other marques enthusiasts that are obsessed with "Numbers Matching Vehicles". This is especially true of the ones that are in it just to make money. "Numbers Matching" has become synonymous with more money, more profit.

    Bo

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  • skyway
    replied
    ...unless your (probably pre-WW2) car is titled by its engine number!

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  • candbstudebakers
    replied
    But, the (P) was also on the 55 259 engines, if a full flow then for sure the P is a 289 one would need the rest of the numbers to figure out 55 259 or not.

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  • rockne10
    replied
    Originally posted by Bo Markham View Post

    You'd be surprised how many trailer queens out there that aren't sporting their original engines......

    Bo
    I'm sure; but it would be an incredibly rare Studebaker owner who would bother; trailer queen or not.
    Grinding down engine numbers and stamping new ones runs more in the 'Vette, GTO, 4-4-2 and Porsche crowds than with Studebakers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bo Markham
    replied
    Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
    If "most" of the folks you know do that, you apparently carouse with an entirely different crowd than anyone I know.
    Seriously! No one with a Studebaker would do such a thing unless they were cloning an extremely rare example.
    You'd be surprised how many trailer queens out there that aren't sporting their original engines......

    Bo

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  • Skip Lackie
    replied
    Originally posted by Commander Eddie View Post
    I believe a 289 was an option in the 1961 Champ Trucks. So casually identifying it as non-stock would be incorrect. Just telling the difference between the two engines at a casual glance would not be easy either.
    Yes. Eddie is correct. The 289 was nearly always available as an option -- and Studebaker would have built a truck with one for a cash customer even if it wasn't listed as an option.

    http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...rTruckData.asp

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