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  • #16
    But, the (P) was also on the 55 259 engines, if a full flow then for sure the P is a 289 one would need the rest of the numbers to figure out 55 259 or not.
    Candbstudebakers
    Castro Valley,
    California


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    • #17
      ...unless your (probably pre-WW2) car is titled by its engine number!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
        I'm sure; but it would be an incredibly rare Studebaker owner who would bother; trailer queen or not.
        Grinding down engine numbers and stamping new ones runs more in the 'Vette, GTO, 4-4-2 and Porsche crowds than with Studebakers.
        Really? Without trying to offend you, to much, what mushroom have you been living under all these years? Die Hard Studebaker owners are no different then any other marques enthusiasts that are obsessed with "Numbers Matching Vehicles". This is especially true of the ones that are in it just to make money. "Numbers Matching" has become synonymous with more money, more profit.

        Bo
        Bo

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Bo Markham View Post
          "Numbers Matching" has become synonymous with more money, more profit.

          Bo
          If you've gotten involved with Studebakers to make big money you've involved yourself in the wrong marque.

          "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

          Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
          Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
          '33 Rockne 10,
          '51 Commander Starlight,
          '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
          '56 Sky Hawk

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          • #20
            My '61 Champ has an R1 engine in it. It also has a Edlebrock four barrel carb. This was done by the previous owner. I get comments about that sometimes and as far as I know they are positive. I wouldn't worry about a non-original engine. As others have said drive it, have fun and enjoy your truck.
            Joe Roberts
            '61 R1 Champ
            '65 Cruiser
            Eastern North Carolina Chapter

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            • #21
              To change a Studebaker engine serial number one would have to weld in the old (stamped) engine SN (i.e., weld in the grooves), then grind that smooth, then stamp the desired serial number with correct-font dies. It has to be stamped hard to (mostly) replicate the depth of the original engine SN.
              -Dwight

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              • #22
                Good Grief. I have several Studebakers that are trophy winners, and I have never once had someone come and ask look at the engine number (although I never have mine judged...)
                1950 Commander Land Cruiser
                1951 Champion Business Coupe
                1951 Commander Starlight
                1952 Champion 2Dr. Sedan
                1953 Champion Starlight
                1953 Commander Starliner
                1953 2R5
                1956 Golden Hawk Jet Streak
                1957 Silver Hawk
                1957 3E5 Pick-Up
                1959 Silver Hawk
                1961 Hawk
                1962 Cruiser 4 speed
                1963 Daytona Convertible
                1964 Daytona R2 4 speed
                1965 Cruiser
                1970 Avanti

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                • #23
                  Engine serial numbers can be almost meaningless on any common Studebaker V-8. The numbers might indicate a 259 , but nothing prevents that 259 having been transformed into a 289, 304, 312, or even a 344. Nothing being changed in the external appearance.
                  That little breathed on ‘259’ powered ‘63 Lark might be a sleeper, capable of out accelerating 90% of the popular Muscle Cars. I love orphan underdog ‘sleepers’.
                  Last edited by Jessie J.; 12-06-2019, 10:21 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dwight FitzSimons View Post
                    To change a Studebaker engine serial number one would have to weld in the old (stamped) engine SN (i.e., weld in the grooves), then grind that smooth, then stamp the desired serial number with correct-font dies. It has to be stamped hard to (mostly) replicate the depth of the original engine SN.
                    -Dwight
                    You would also need to check date codes on block, heads, manifolds etc to ensure they were cast within a reasonable day of final assembly.

                    IMHO, the attention to this kind of detail is what separates drivers from show/concours cars. While most Studebakers, as well as many models of brand x, do not merit this kind of attention, some do.

                    IIRC, some of Brad Bez's creations have garnered excellent prices because of attention to detail.


                    78 Avanti RQB 2792
                    64 Avanti R1 R5408
                    63 Avanti R1 R4551
                    63 Avanti R1 R2281
                    62 GT Hawk V15949
                    56 GH 6032504
                    56 GH 6032588
                    55 Speedster 7160047
                    55 Speedster 7165279

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                    • #25
                      I cleaned up the block number, and looks to read P5646. If there is a number after the last 6, it's very faint, and slightly misaligned. But I think its just the letter and four numbers.

                      The engine block on the 62 frame, has the cloverleaf stamped on it. So, I'm thinking maybe it would be the better block to use, if it's in ok shape.

                      Thanks for the input and advise. Matching numbers really isn't that important to me, I was just hoping it was the same engine from when I was a kid.
                      Mike and Dawn

                      '61 Champ

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post

                        You would also need to check date codes on block, heads, manifolds etc to ensure they were cast within a reasonable day of final assembly.
                        This is exactly true. I have compiled a list of engine casting date codes for Studebakers from the 1920s to 1964. I can provide that to anyone who asks.
                        -Dwight

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                        • #27
                          I've been on both sides of this equation. Yes I have been asked numerous times about the engine in my Four Season Roadster. I was always happy to pass on the information that it was the original engine. The funny thing with regards to the FS, is that nobody would know regardless of my answer. That's because non of the production orders for the 1931 production year have survived. Evan though people know that it's authenticity can't be checked, some still ask. Putting humility aside, the reason for the multiple inquiries is the car's pedigree. Not every car like it will demand the same scrutiny. Yes folks it's a trailer queen, but I take no umbridge with people who think that all cars need to be driven to be enjoyed. I get it, that's why I'm a collector. Most of my cars are for driving, but some are not. Some cars are built for a different part of the hobby, and those cars demand a huge premium, when they change hands.

                          IMHO numbers matching is important for only a very few of the most rare, post war Studebakers. Unless it is one of those rare models, and it is restored to perfection, there is little reason to worry about it's engine number. It can also be about the story or about a famous owner. For most of the p-w cars done to a reasonable standard, or a well preserved original, it comes down to how solid it is, does it look good, and how does it drive. There is nothing that you can do about the engine, so enjoy it for what it has become.

                          Bill

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                          • #28
                            I just 're'-read all the replies and one of your own replies makes an interesting point.
                            I'd bet an Oregon donut the engine was changed at one time or another by the service department at the Oregon State Police, (or possibly the Studebaker dealership if it was still within the warranty period).
                            Government vehicles tend to get some hard use and an engine change would not be out of the ordinary.


                            I was hoping to restore the pickup back to its Oregon State Police days.
                            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                            Jeff


                            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
                              I just 're'-read all the replies and one of your own replies makes an interesting point.
                              I'd bet an Oregon donut the engine was changed at one time or another by the service department at the Oregon State Police, (or possibly the Studebaker dealership if it was still within the warranty period).
                              Government vehicles tend to get some hard use and an engine change would not be out of the ordinary.
                              It wasn't only Government agencies that maintained their vehicle fleet with engines and other components cannibalized from scrapped units from their surplus fleet. Besides many transit systems which cannibalize their out-of-service buses to keep newer ones on the road, U-Haul also did the same for years and years. Now with tighter emissions testing, and safety regulations, I don't believe this done as often as in was in the past.

                              Craig

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 8E45E View Post

                                It wasn't only Government agencies that maintained their vehicle fleet with engines and other components cannibalized from scrapped units from their surplus fleet. Besides many transit systems which cannibalize their out-of-service buses to keep newer ones on the road, U-Haul also did the same for years and years. Now with tighter emissions testing, and safety regulations, I don't believe this done as often as in was in the past.

                                Craig
                                This is well-known in British motorcycle circles: It certainly was the same deal with war-department motorcycles in England during WWII. Rather than spend time rebuilding the engine on a BSA M20 and keeping it out of service, they'd swap engines and rebuild the bad unit while keeping the bike on the road. It would totally make sense for a state police department to swap out an engine to keep the vehicle on the road rather than sidelining to while the engine is rebuilt.

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