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Former SNM Challenger?

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  • Former SNM Challenger?

    Anyone know this car? Says it was in the Museum for 10 years:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Stude...RCHQ3aUSQ3a101

    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
    Parish, central NY 13131

    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

    "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"




  • #2
    Looks like a decent buy to me for a 4-door with a V8.

    Mark Anderson
    Member SDC and FMCA
    Keeper of the Studebaker Cruiser Registry
    www.65cruiser.com


    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, Bob; I know of this car. I talked at length with the owner a couple years ago when he was trying to sell it locally, but can't find my notes on the conversation right now. I probably have them somewhere deep in the pile and if anyone really has to know, I'll keep digging.

      True, it was donated to The SNM and remained there as a donation for many years, but not displayed as it isn't "museum quality" by any means. They sold it as surplus. If this guy didn't buy it from the SNM, he bought it from the guy that did.

      From my lengthy conversation with him, I concluded it was "just a car." It is a factory V-8, straight-stick (no overdrive) Challenger, but the "extra" 2 doors kills enthusiasm.

      When I talked to him, he really wanted around $5,000 for it, which I felt was just too high to pursue. I did not physically examine the car because it was over 135 miles away...and still is. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        I learned something by looking at this thing. I wasn't aware that the lower trim level cars still got the single-circuit master cylinder when the other drum brake cars got the dual-circuit. Talk about cost-cutting measures!
        Bob, do you know if dual-circuit brakes were an option here? Does the PBW have a single or dual?

        Clark, what does your Standard have?

        1957 Transtar 1/2ton
        1960 Larkvertible V8
        1958 Provincial wagon
        1953 Commander coupe
        1957 President two door

        No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

        Comment


        • #5
          quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

          I learned something by looking at this thing. I wasn't aware that the lower trim level cars still got the single-circuit master cylinder when the other drum brake cars got the dual-circuit. Talk about cost-cutting measures!
          Bob, do you know if dual-circuit brakes were an option here? Does the PBW have a single or dual?
          Bob: Yes, The Plain Brown Wrapper was built with single-circuit brakes and still has them.

          A dual-piston master cylinder was Regular Production Option #32 on 1964 Challengers, at $9.01. (But if the dealer was doing "whatever it took to make a deal," he'd usually knock off that penny and make it an even $9.00!) BP
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          Ayn Rand:
          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bob; most '63 Standards, Regals and '64 Challenger, Commanders have the 1961-'62 square SINGLE master Cylinder, at least the ones I have seen from perusing the new cars on the Stude. Dealer lots til lately, seeing SDC show cars. There are so few '63 Customs (without Disc. Brakes), that I would have to check the Parts Book for that one, being a high end car I expect a Dual Master there. The ones with Dual would be a very rare option or changeover.

            quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

            I learned something by looking at this thing. I wasn't aware that the lower trim level cars still got the single-circuit master cylinder when the other drum brake cars got the dual-circuit.
            StudeRich
            Studebakers Northwest
            Ferndale, WA
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah, I checked the parts book before posting.

              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
              1960 Larkvertible V8
              1958 Provincial wagon
              1953 Commander coupe
              1957 President two door

              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

              Comment


              • #8
                So, in '63, all Studes except disc brake cars and Standards, came standard with dual MC's?

                And in '64, the dual MC was an option?

                Just adds to the confusion.

                (And to make the confusion worse, there's a parted out '63 Cruiser at the shop, with a single MC... Go figure! No evidence of it being changed from a dual, either.)

                Matthew Burnette
                Hazlehurst, GA


                Comment


                • #9
                  .....Considering this owner's 64 Commander had it's power drum dual MC since its days spent as a six and an auto....


                  [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left]
                  [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
                  [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                  1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                  1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                  1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                  1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    quote:Originally posted by mbstude

                    So, in '63, all Studes except disc brake cars and Standards, came standard with dual MC's?

                    And in '64, the dual MC was an option?

                    Just adds to the confusion.

                    (And to make the confusion worse, there's a parted out '63 Cruiser at the shop, with a single MC... Go figure! No evidence of it being changed from a dual, either.)

                    Matthew Burnette
                    Hazlehurst, GA

                    NO, Matthew. Here's a nutshell summary:

                    All 1963-1966 Lark-types (not Hawks) had dual piston master cylinders and split brake systems standard equipment EXCEPT:

                    1. Cars with factory-installed disc brakes.

                    2. 1963 Studebaker Lark Standards and 1964 Studebaker Lark Challengers.

                    My early-edition (1962 printing) 1963 Salesman's Ordering Guide does not list a dual-piston master cylinder option for the Standard, but I wouldn't expect it to: The Standard hadn't been introduced yet. Material I have after the Standard was introduced doesn't mention the dual-piston master cylinder option, but I don't have every scrap of ordering informatiion on the Standard, so it may have been an option.

                    It certainly was a Regular Production Option on the 1964 Lark Challenger, as I posted earlier. BP

                    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                    Ayn Rand:
                    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks BP, got it now.

                      Still, why would a '63 Cruiser have a single MC on it?

                      Matthew Burnette
                      Hazlehurst, GA


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm still trying to figure out why they weren't standard equipment on EVERY Stude, from the first day they were available[B)] The cost would have been substantially lower if amortized across the entire production... and the much better safety would have been a great selling point as standard equipment!

                        Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                        Parish, central NY 13131

                        "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                        "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:Originally posted by mbstude

                          Thanks BP, got it now.

                          Still, why would a '63 Cruiser have a single MC on it?

                          Matthew Burnette
                          Hazlehurst, GA

                          [8D] Matthew, I'll bet a $50 bill that something was changed on that 1963 Cruiser in its lifetime and that it was not manufactured and left South Bend with drum brakes all around and a single-piston master cylinder.

                          Remember the story we just read (I think it was in the discussion of JDP's 399-point Jet Green Hawk) about a dealership that changed a brand-new GT Hawk's brakes from disc to drum, or maybe vice-versa, to satisfy a customer?

                          All manner of unusual things could have happened -and I'll bet at least one of them did- from the time that Cruiser was manufactured to when it landed at your place 45 years later. (I wish it was closer; I'd sure like to examine it!) BP
                          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                          Ayn Rand:
                          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Stop by on your next trip to the Golden Isles, BP.

                            We've got an Astra White '64 Daytona Wagonaire for ya, too.

                            Matthew Burnette
                            Hazlehurst, GA


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by bams50

                              I'm still trying to figure out why they weren't standard equipment on EVERY Stude, from the first day they were available[B)] The cost would have been substantially lower if amortised across the entire production... and the much better safety would have been a great selling point as standard equipment!

                              Robert (Bob) Andrews
                              [:0] Now here's an odd way to look at that, Bob:

                              Studebaker's Automotive Division posted a loss for both the 1963 and 1964 model years...or at least the 1964 models built in South Bend.

                              So, in effect, they lost money on every 1963 and 1964 South-Bend built car. By using single-piston master cylinders on Standards and Challengers, they lost less money than they would have otherwise! BP
                              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                              Ayn Rand:
                              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                              Comment

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