Announcement

**sbca96** · 10-25-2006, 08:32 PM

Skip, thats the point I made on that thread I posted up for Biggs. I
see a lot of posts on here, and other forums that are not correct in
describing smog laws, or registering laws. Many will use the "I dont
live in California, so it doesnt effect me" - until they go to their
local DMV and find out that their State has the SAME laws (some are
even WORSE then California - imagine that!)

As for emissions, cars in California that are 1975 and older are smog
exempt, cars 1976 and newer must be smogged by the requirements that
were factory for that vehicle. As mentioned, if you swap an engine
newer then the one in the car (on 1976 and newer smog controlled cars)
then it must pass the requirements of the NEWER engine. Whats nice
about this, is the newer the engine, the better the emissions, and the
less (now to about 2 hp per CAT) power it robs. The air pump on most
newer engines only run when the engine is cold, and they are electric.
The new Corvette actually LOST power on a dyno with CATS removed!

Before you start ragging on California for everything, check your all
your local laws, many emissions laws are FEDERAL mandate, like its
ILLEGAL to remove a CAT from a pollution controlled vehicle - IN ANY
OF THE STATES. There are FINES involved. Obviously these dont apply
to Studebakers in California, or elsewhere, but knowledge is power.

Tom

**Dick Steinkamp** · 10-26-2006, 06:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Which one were you talking about, Dick[?][}

][8D][

)]

The fast looking one is the one without any Studebaker parts [^]. (The slow one has a bunch [8D]). BTW, it's running an Oldsmobile motor without any GM parts (including the block) [:0]...talking about your clone!

When did an Avanti stop becoming a Studebaker (or did it?)[?]

**Dick Steinkamp** · 10-26-2006, 06:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Which one were you talking about, Dick[?][}

][8D][

)]

The fast looking one is the one without any Studebaker parts [^]. (The slow one has a bunch [8D]). BTW, it's running an Oldsmobile motor without any GM parts (including the block) [:0]...talking about your clone!

When did an Avanti stop becoming a Studebaker (or did it?)[?]

**JBOYLE** · 10-26-2006, 08:29 AM

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
When did an Avanti stop becoming a Studebaker (or did it?)[?]

In 1966 when Avanti motors started production of the Avanti II (the II was later dropped).
It was the original design built in the old Studebaker factory, by former Studebaker workers on Studebaker frames but with Chevy 327s. Two owners later (in 1987-ish), they started using Chevy frames and by then a lot of the original car details (chrome bumpers, dash shape) had been changed.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

**JBOYLE** · 10-26-2006, 08:29 AM

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
When did an Avanti stop becoming a Studebaker (or did it?)[?]

In 1966 when Avanti motors started production of the Avanti II (the II was later dropped).
It was the original design built in the old Studebaker factory, by former Studebaker workers on Studebaker frames but with Chevy 327s. Two owners later (in 1987-ish), they started using Chevy frames and by then a lot of the original car details (chrome bumpers, dash shape) had been changed.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

**Swifster** · 10-26-2006, 10:04 AM

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

When did an Avanti stop becoming a Studebaker (or did it?)[?]

IMHO, I'd say when production left South Bend. I could build in Avanti from scattered parts, but it doesn't make it a Studebaker. But when the only difference is the 327, and it's built in South Bend by the same workers, it's close enough.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

**Swifster** · 10-26-2006, 10:04 AM

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

When did an Avanti stop becoming a Studebaker (or did it?)[?]

IMHO, I'd say when production left South Bend. I could build in Avanti from scattered parts, but it doesn't make it a Studebaker. But when the only difference is the 327, and it's built in South Bend by the same workers, it's close enough.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

**Skip Lackie** · 10-26-2006, 02:15 PM

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Skip, thats the point I made on that thread I posted up for Biggs. I
see a lot of posts on here, and other forums that are not correct in
describing smog laws, or registering laws. Many will use the "I dont
live in California, so it doesnt effect me" - until they go to their
local DMV and find out that their State has the SAME laws (some are
even WORSE then California - imagine that!)

As for emissions, cars in California that are 1975 and older are smog
exempt, cars 1976 and newer must be smogged by the requirements that
were factory for that vehicle. As mentioned, if you swap an engine
newer then the one in the car (on 1976 and newer smog controlled cars)
then it must pass the requirements of the NEWER engine. Whats nice
about this, is the newer the engine, the better the emissions, and the
less (now to about 2 hp per CAT) power it robs. The air pump on most
newer engines only run when the engine is cold, and they are electric.
The new Corvette actually LOST power on a dyno with CATS removed!

Before you start ragging on California for everything, check your all
your local laws, many emissions laws are FEDERAL mandate, like its
ILLEGAL to remove a CAT from a pollution controlled vehicle - IN ANY
OF THE STATES. There are FINES involved. Obviously these dont apply
to Studebakers in California, or elsewhere, but knowledge is power.

Tom

Back in the 1990s I wrote occasional articles for TW on emissions standards, oxygenated gas, scrapping laws, and other legislation that affected the old car hobby. The articles were kinda dry and boring, and I eventually stopped submitting them (nobody semed to mind

). The bottom line of all of the articles was that the Federal Clean Air Act mandates that states must enforce EPA emission standards or forfeit some of their Federal highway money. For example, removing or disabling any original-equipment emissions-control equipment is illegal, even on cars that are old enough to be exempt from emissions testing. No state wants to lose that free money. Obviously enforcement is sometimes sloppy, but state government agencies normally take their responsibilities seriously.

Skip Lackie

**Skip Lackie** · 10-26-2006, 02:15 PM

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

Skip, thats the point I made on that thread I posted up for Biggs. I
see a lot of posts on here, and other forums that are not correct in
describing smog laws, or registering laws. Many will use the "I dont
live in California, so it doesnt effect me" - until they go to their
local DMV and find out that their State has the SAME laws (some are
even WORSE then California - imagine that!)

As for emissions, cars in California that are 1975 and older are smog
exempt, cars 1976 and newer must be smogged by the requirements that
were factory for that vehicle. As mentioned, if you swap an engine
newer then the one in the car (on 1976 and newer smog controlled cars)
then it must pass the requirements of the NEWER engine. Whats nice
about this, is the newer the engine, the better the emissions, and the
less (now to about 2 hp per CAT) power it robs. The air pump on most
newer engines only run when the engine is cold, and they are electric.
The new Corvette actually LOST power on a dyno with CATS removed!

Before you start ragging on California for everything, check your all
your local laws, many emissions laws are FEDERAL mandate, like its
ILLEGAL to remove a CAT from a pollution controlled vehicle - IN ANY
OF THE STATES. There are FINES involved. Obviously these dont apply
to Studebakers in California, or elsewhere, but knowledge is power.

Tom

Back in the 1990s I wrote occasional articles for TW on emissions standards, oxygenated gas, scrapping laws, and other legislation that affected the old car hobby. The articles were kinda dry and boring, and I eventually stopped submitting them (nobody semed to mind

). The bottom line of all of the articles was that the Federal Clean Air Act mandates that states must enforce EPA emission standards or forfeit some of their Federal highway money. For example, removing or disabling any original-equipment emissions-control equipment is illegal, even on cars that are old enough to be exempt from emissions testing. No state wants to lose that free money. Obviously enforcement is sometimes sloppy, but state government agencies normally take their responsibilities seriously.

Skip Lackie

**Swifster** · 10-26-2006, 03:16 PM

quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
Obviously enforcement is sometimes sloppy, but state government agencies normally take their responsibilities seriously.

...And many do not

.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

**Swifster** · 10-26-2006, 03:16 PM

quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
Obviously enforcement is sometimes sloppy, but state government agencies normally take their responsibilities seriously.

...And many do not

.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

Michigan Speed - www.michiganspeed.com
Club Hot Rod - www.clubhotrod.com
LS1 Tech - www.ls1tech.com

**sbca96** · 10-26-2006, 08:18 PM

To answer the original question, "Why is this called a Studebaker?"

I think that its because the name isnt actually copyrighted anymore?
Or at least not enforced like if they called it a Chevy or Ford. If
that is a company is officially calling it a "Studebaker" and its not
just the person advertising it. That is could be registered as an
actual Studebaker doesnt make sense. Something is fishy there. Its
possible that someone pulled a VIN from an old Studebaker truck?

Tom

**sbca96** · 10-26-2006, 08:18 PM

To answer the original question, "Why is this called a Studebaker?"

I think that its because the name isnt actually copyrighted anymore?
Or at least not enforced like if they called it a Chevy or Ford. If
that is a company is officially calling it a "Studebaker" and its not
just the person advertising it. That is could be registered as an
actual Studebaker doesnt make sense. Something is fishy there. Its
possible that someone pulled a VIN from an old Studebaker truck?

Tom

**Skip Lackie** · 10-27-2006, 04:51 AM

quote:Originally posted by Swifster

...And many do not

.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

. . . . . if you're lucky (which we in DC usually are not).[V]

Skip

**Skip Lackie** · 10-27-2006, 04:51 AM

quote:Originally posted by Swifster

...And many do not

.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Lakeland, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

. . . . . if you're lucky (which we in DC usually are not).[V]

Skip

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