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2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

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  • 2019 Engine Master's Challenge - Studebaker Power Team

    IT IS OFFICIAL!!!!!!!

    The Studebaker Power Team engine has been accepted and will compete in the 2019 Engine Master's Competition.

    More details to come!
    Our want list is surprisingly short, but very much in need.
    Will be making an updated team want list in the next couple of days.
    More post's with tech setups and rules to follow.



    Thanks for your patience!



    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  • #2
    (Note)
    You can also follow along on the Facebook group page
    (You have to ask to join, and get accepted...by me... Just trying to keep the spammers out)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/2368852399810943/

    You can also follow along on the Racing Studebakers forum...

    http://www.racingstudebakers.com/foo...p=42514#p42514
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's a link to the rules... (pdf file)
      Don't get all bent out of shape.
      We have read, re-read, asked, negotiated, and pleaded with them about some of these rules.
      And we have succeeded in almost every area we needed.


      https://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/...les_2_5_19.pdf
      HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

      Jeff


      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



      Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

      Comment


      • #4
        Congadulations on getting accepted! It will be awesome to have a Studebaker engine in the mix,and even more awesome to have a winning engine. Good Luck with everything that it takes to get there.

        Comment


        • #5
          GOOD LUCK! I'm sure a lot of us will be on the look out for progress and results of this project.
          Joe Roberts
          '61 R1 Champ
          '65 Cruiser
          Eastern North Carolina Chapter

          Comment


          • #6
            Good on ya guys!!
            We are all cheering for you and don't forget the pics.
            Bill

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for all this Jeff.... On the rules page, I'll sound like the dummy and ask if a hydraulic cam can be used, because it says any solid one permitted, so I suppose that is a hyd vs. solid permission statement ? Also, the 165 max temp thermostat...is that because it was a common one back then or ??? Thanks again, I had never read these rules. Be cheering you guys on, and hope to be with y'all on F-Book.

              Comment


              • #8
                Solid lifters were considered a more 'adjustable performance upgrade' on some engines back then. It allowed more choices for cams.
                Also most engines really improve HP if you run them 'hotter' They don't want them puking all over the Dyno room... and it keeps them more even.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by (S) View Post
                  Solid lifters were considered a more 'adjustable performance upgrade' on some engines back then. It allowed more choices for cams.
                  Also most engines really improve HP if you run them 'hotter' They don't want them puking all over the Dyno room... and it keeps them more even.
                  Hey (S), that is why I was asking the question about the thermostats, I knew heat (to a point) helped HP, and wonder why a 180 can't be used. My 428 CJ came with a 190 something thermostat and I thought that was weird until I read about it back then. As far as hyd vs. solid cams, just wondering if hydraulics were not allowed....and I don't think Stude offered any hydraulic ones anyway...just being curious. On the other hand, my 289 hipo Ford engine came with solid lifters and then sometime later, Ford came out with a great hydraulic cam (6250-C seems like) with very similar specs and anti-pump-up lifters. I tried it and it was so much more responsive, and still pulled 6 K...which was tops and running out of intake efficiency anyway. Thanks for the response tho' sir !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually, The 'solid' roller lifters were not allowed because when roller lifter cams came out they were all hydraulic roller lifters.
                    So the idea behind 'Old Iron' was to make the most of your tuning abilities using what was originally used.
                    That being said.....
                    We were given the OK to use solid roller lifters because Studebaker always used solid lifters (in Stude V8 engines).
                    Personally, I was OK to use the hydraulic roller lifter, except for the cost. They are $400+ more than the solid roller lifter.

                    The thermostat rule is because the dyno room cooling system is a closed loop water/water intercooler setup.
                    A dyno pull will put enough heat into the closed loop that you really need a cool down period between pulls to keep the temps somewhat normal.

                    The water pump rule is for the same reason. The aftermarket coolant belt drive motor setups could not circulate enough water through the closed loop to cool the engine. They cooked a couple of engines two years ago.. Learned their lessons.
                    Last edited by DEEPNHOCK; 05-08-2019, 07:10 AM.
                    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                    Jeff


                    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Jeff !

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        (update)
                        (apologies for cross posting... Kind of busy on my end)


                        "Digger" Dave Molnar has been a busy man...
                        Dave ran literally hundreds of cam dyno sim's and has decided on the (Jay Bradel supplied) roller cam profile for the 304+
                        (.060" overbore as allowed by the rules).
                        The cam has been shipped down to Phil Harris for his cam grinder to prepare.
                        Our query (plea) to the Engine Master's rules committee was successful when it came to the roller lifters.
                        We asked that 'solid' roller lifters be allowed as Studebaker V8 engines all used 'solid' lifters.
                        The rules committee basically uses a majority of the NHRA 'stock class' engine rules as their guideline.
                        Since the first OEM 'roller cam' engines used a hydraulic roller lifter, that's what was determined to be 'stock'.
                        An exclusion to that rule was added for engines manufactured earlier that had solid lifters (Stude and ?)
                        Jay also made up some bronze(?) distributor gears and sent the Studebaker Power Team one to use with his camshaft.


                        So...
                        Our valvetrain has been decided. Unless there is a base circle height issue that might change the pushrod length, we can use the parts we ran last year.
                        Progress!
                        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                        Jeff


                        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good on you guys, Jeff; 'looking forward to the updates. All the best and go for it!

                          (As to the solid lifter question, didn't Y-block Ford V8s also have solid lifters? ) BP
                          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                          Ayn Rand:
                          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            (Exclusive for the SDC Forum)

                            David Molnar has run the 'formula' on the hundreds of dyno simulation runs he has done for different displacements and cam combo's.

                            (formula)
                            HP plus Torque divided by claimed CID multiplied by 1000*


                            * HP and torque figures are the total of 3 dyno pulls added together and divided by 3
                            (ie: Avg Torque and avg HP)

                            The oft asked question is what is the 'sweet spot' for the Stude engine displacement in the rules package?
                            The answer is... There is no real answer. Sort of. Maybe.

                            The old adage "There is no replacement for displacement" seems to ring true.
                            However, there is also a correction factor added for displacement(s) under 250 cid.
                            'Tis a big gamble to develop an engine package of that small displacent just to run against the big boys.
                            David looked at this, ran his numbers, put his foot down and said
                            "This is what we are going to build".
                            So, a 304+ (.060" overbore) it is.
                            And I am good with that.
                            The scoring points possible puts the Studebaker Power Team engine right in the mix.
                            If David can squeak some more horsepower out on the dyno... We have a good chance to score very, very well.

                            There is more going on than can be reported right now.
                            Look for some sponsorship opportunities soon.
                            (shameless begging to make this a first class world wide Studebaker effort!)


                            HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                            Jeff


                            Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                            Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              WOW! You guys are really putting the Studebaker name out to the public with this project. I hope they pay attention. Thanks for the reports and for taking on this project. Good Luck to you all.
                              Joe Roberts
                              '61 R1 Champ
                              '65 Cruiser
                              Eastern North Carolina Chapter

                              Comment

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