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Avanti water pump - differences from standard?

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  • Avanti water pump - differences from standard?

    what is the difference between a regular 289 water pump and an avanti water pump ? what will happen if you use a regular one in an avanti?

  • #2
    My understanding of the difference is in the size of the bearing. Avanti pumps have a larger bearing that takes the wear better as more runs off the belt, ie supercharger, ac , than on most Studebakers. I believe they each pump the same amount, so my guess is that nothing will happen but it will fail sooner if you run a "regular" pump.
    Bob
    Bob
    Welland Ontario
    60 Lark Convertible
    64 Daytona
    sigpic
    "They were meant to be driven ... so keep on cruizin"

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    • #3
      No, actually the shaft, and bearing are the same part on Avanti, and non R series v8s. The differences are in the front pulley hub, and the cast housing itself. Avantis use cast pulleys and also a thermostatic fan clutch,so the hub is deeper. Also there is side tension of the supercharger if it is so equipped. All of these factors led to failure of the weaker non ribbed or reinforced housings, and the casting broke behind the bearing, and the whole shebang went through the radiator. Not a good thing.
      Bez Auto Alchemy
      573-318-8948
      http://bezautoalchemy.com


      "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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      • #4
        I learned the hard way years ago when I installed a standard non R pump on an Avanti. It took about three weeks for the pump snout to fracture due to the extra side load put on the pump shaft, so I don't recommend a pump that isn't meant for an R engine. Bud

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        • #5
          I too have heard of cases where the pump failed and fan went through the rad. I knew that the Avanti pump had a larger casting and always thought it was to accomodate a larger bearing, but apparently not. Thanks for setting the record straight. You learn something every day.
          Bob
          Bob
          Welland Ontario
          60 Lark Convertible
          64 Daytona
          sigpic
          "They were meant to be driven ... so keep on cruizin"

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          • #6
            If the number on the casting is 527070for the R2 pump, I have one laying around that I carried with me as a spare. IIRC, it was rebuilt many years ago and never used. Make me a reasonable offer if you can use it.
            Attached Files

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            • #7
              Way back when Studebaker was still building Cars, that 527070 Number was used for the Basic Casting, way before there were Avantis. Somehow in later years the aftermarket Vendors must have incorrectly numbered the REPRODUCTION H.D. Avanti Pump Castings with that Old Standard Pump Number. It is quite obvious due to the 1951 Part Number.

              So what I am trying to say is, ALL pumps with that casting number are not necessarily H.D. Avanti Pumps.

              It is ALL about the 3 Webs or Gussets that provide better support for the Bearing and shaft and also the only thing that makes a Std. Pump a no fit on an Avanti; the LONG Centering, center Nose of the Hub for the Viscous Drive Unit!

              From what I can see of this Pump shown is, it does not have either Avanti Pump characteristic, so this "Rebuild" was incorrectly sold as Avanti because of the misunderstood casting number which really means nothing on a Rebuild.

              To further add to the confusion, I sell the H.D. non-Avanti Pumps for Supercharged and Air Conditioned Cars with the reinforced Casting, but not the Special Hub for the Viscous Drive Unit.
              Last edited by StudeRich; 06-20-2018, 11:27 AM.
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #8
                Thanks for the info. Glad I never had to use it!

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                • #9
                  Consider removing the cast iron pulley and replacing with an aluminum one, takes significant weight off of the water pump bearing.

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                  • #10
                    Alternatively, if you put an Avanti WP on a standard engine, get ready to do a dance finding the correct spacers/pulleys to make it fit...
                    64 GT Hawk (K7)
                    1970 Avanti (R3)

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                    • #11
                      As far as I know, there have been 3 different water pump body castings used for v8 engines. A) original thin wall casting; B) Aftermarket thin wall casting (originally tooled by Essex, who then sold out to Airtex.....which supplied to SASCO up till the early 70's); and C; the "Stone" heavy duty casting which has a thicker neck for the bearing (the photo above is a thick wall casting).

                      All were tooled for the "5/8" shaft bearings. There are 2 different types of water pump bearings.....standard "ball-ball" (meaning there are 2 rows of balls on the inside) and "ball-roller" (one row off balls in the back half and 1 row of rollers in the front). The ball roller has a much higher capacity (for loads like AC or superchargers).

                      As mentioned above, the length of the shaft and the hub used are the variables when it comes to fit for any particular application. My advise has always been if you are running more than a standard load (generator, power steering pump), you should consider the heaviest pump you can get. I think SI carries the thick wall casting pumps, but can't remember for sure.
                      Mike Sal

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                      • #12
                        Mike that being said.......if one orders a new Avanti pump, how can one determine if it has the better ball/roller arrangement?
                        Originally posted by Mike Sal View Post
                        As far as I know, there have been 3 different water pump body castings used for v8 engines. A) original thin wall casting; B) Aftermarket thin wall casting (originally tooled by Essex, who then sold out to Airtex.....which supplied to SASCO up till the early 70's); and C; the "Stone" heavy duty casting which has a thicker neck for the bearing (the photo above is a thick wall casting).

                        All were tooled for the "5/8" shaft bearings. There are 2 different types of water pump bearings.....standard "ball-ball" (meaning there are 2 rows of balls on the inside) and "ball-roller" (one row off balls in the back half and 1 row of rollers in the front). The ball roller has a much higher capacity (for loads like AC or superchargers).

                        As mentioned above, the length of the shaft and the hub used are the variables when it comes to fit for any particular application. My advise has always been if you are running more than a standard load (generator, power steering pump), you should consider the heaviest pump you can get. I think SI carries the thick wall casting pumps, but can't remember for sure.
                        Mike Sal

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                        • #13
                          Since these are NOW all reproduced by the same Company to the Original Blueprints,
                          the Std. V8, the H.D. V8 and the Avanti H.D. V8 are very likely ALL the same type bearings since they all have the same size Bearing, so I don't believe it matters.

                          I just happen to be one of few Studebaker Vendors selling the H.D. V8 Pumps for non-Avanti, H.D. usage on Air Cond. and Supercharged Studes.

                          Here is the H.D. V8: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223201603404

                          Here is the H.D. Avanti V8: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223201602078
                          Last edited by StudeRich; 11-03-2018, 08:55 PM.
                          StudeRich
                          Second Generation Stude Driver,
                          Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                          • #14
                            Back when I was rebuilding v8 pumps, a bearing for a '71 ford truck (289 engine) was a close match if I remember right. There is usually a number stamped on the end of the bearing shaft & it can be de-coded to let you know if it's a ball-ball or a ball-roller (the numbers vary by manufacturer).
                            mike S

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                            • #15
                              If a water pump was purchased in 1995 never used and stored in a plastic bag would it still be good to keep as a spare?
                              Just do not know if I should buy another one to keep as a spare.

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