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  • Fossil Fuel vrs. Electric

    With several European countries imposing a 2040 deadline on gasoline powered cars and now China talking likewise, how long before our Studebakers will not be allowed on the road? I doubt that it will happen in my lifetime so I'm not going to worry.....
    Lou Van Anne
    62 Champ
    64 R2 GT Hawk
    79 Avanti II

  • #2
    Not sure if this has reached the States yet... Jaguar land Rover have created an EV (electric) E-Type Jaguar, the iconic car that Enzo Ferrari said was the most beautiful car ever designed. Anyway, I'm partial to my 56J, so don't get hyper-ventilating just yet.

    You can read about the E-Type in the link below
    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/fra...lectric-e-type

    Separate to the E=Type, there was a guy in Southern Cal who'd taken a '51 or '53 Chevy Pickup which he'd converted to EV. All the batteries (Tesla) were located under the pickup's bed and added to the stability of the truck. It was his daily driver... and the best part, he'd retained the three speed transmission, if my memory serves me correctly.

    As it is, I'll be attending the Frankfurt Motor Show in a couple of days as part of my job. And, while the UK has announced that 2040 is the target date for gasoline cars, this is in respect of being able to walk into a showroom (if they still exist) to order a new gas / diesel car. For what it's worth, Mercedes-Benz and Jaguar have said they remain committed to the diesel engine... at least for now.

    I'd say, don't worry just yet!
    Richard
    sigpic

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    • #3
      The trade offs between consuming oil and electric are not as cut and dry as some might think. There are huge costs when you factor in current battery construction alone.
      I don't think gasoline and diesel powered vehicles are going to go away soon in this country and I think countries that are instituting a definite date to go all electric are going to find the going tough. They will start with ALL new cars sold and then have to phase out the older vehicles over a 20 or 30 year time.
      There may be a demand in this country to at least grandfather in the classics and collector cars but the debate will be where to draw the line.
      I am just going to watch and wait to see how this all works out. In the long run we will need to do what is best for the planet. This is the only one we have.
      Ed Sallia
      Dundee, OR

      Sol Lucet Omnibus

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      • #4
        Originally posted by packard352 View Post
        Not sure if this has reached the States yet... Jaguar land Rover have created an EV (electric) E-Type Jaguar, the iconic car that Enzo Ferrari said was the most beautiful car ever designed. Anyway, I'm partial to my 56J, so don't get hyper-ventilating just yet.

        You can read about the E-Type in the link below
        https://www.topgear.com/car-news/fra...lectric-e-type
        The Series I E-Type's are my favorite non-Stude cars, hands down. An XKE without a 3.8 or 4.2 is just... wrong.
        Last edited by mbstude; 09-11-2017, 07:55 PM.

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        • #5
          Banning gas cars? I dont see it happing. Banning gas, now I can see that happing!

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          • #6
            Well...although our Studebakers burn gasoline, they are electric too. Try driving one without electricity. Years ago, in the earliest days of the SDC, we had bumper stickers that shouted..."We'd rather FIX than Switch!"

            Perhaps, some day, our new obsession, instead of repowering with SBC's, modifying with Discs brakes, installing rack & pinion steering, electric fuel pumps, etc., everybody will be converging on "Pick-U-Parts" competing for (by then) discarded "Tesla" motors to replace the cast iron relics currently under our hoods.
            John Clary
            Greer, SC

            SDC member since 1975

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            • #7
              Well....
              Considering whale oil took about 25 years to fade out after refined crude oil (and natural gas) became popular .
              Considering refined crude oil powerplants only had about a 25 year head start over electricity... And electric cars had inneficient battery technology.
              Yeah. I could see electric vehicles replacing fossil fuel over a 25 to 35 year period...If...
              If it was properly developed using mass production methods and capitalistic marketing methods...
              Like Tesla is doing now....
              Like Henry Ford brought to the gasoline powered car marketplace back in his day.
              Some interesting unrelated parallels..
              HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

              Jeff


              Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



              Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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              • #8
                Going "all-electric" will apply to production, not existing vehicles. Any thought of perfectly functional internal combustion being forced to the recycling yard in our lifetime, or our children's lifetime, is the sort of thing folks prone to panic attacks envision. Even come the day when decades have passed since fossil fuel engines rolled down the assembly line, there will be that niche market for the small specialized refineries to provide fuel for the "antiques" that were produced over the coming few decades, albeit at the extreme prices required to conform that fuel production to immense ecological restrictions and licensing. We will continue to drive for as long as we can afford it.
                "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

                Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
                Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
                '33 Rockne 10,
                '51 Commander Starlight,
                '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
                '56 Sky Hawk

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                • #9
                  The biggest problem wityh electric cars is the ungodly cost of keeping them on the road when they get to be just 10 years old. After ten, or in my case 9 years it cost $3000 to put a new drive battery in my '03 prius, not to mention the $200 12 volt battery every year. whats worse is it get worse if you don't drive them every day. Heck my gas cars can sit for months, I hit the key and off I go, the prius will have a completely dead 12v battery requiring replacement after only weeks of non use. It's cheaper to drive my Tundra.
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    We drove an 05 Prius over 200,000 miles without replacing any battery but we only had it 7 years. What I expect to happen is for gasoline to get hard to find in,s 30-40 years.
                    Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

                    40 Champion 4 door*
                    50 Champion 2 door*
                    53 Commander K Auto*
                    53 Commander K overdrive*
                    55 President Speedster
                    62 GT 4Speed*
                    63 Avanti R1*
                    64 Champ 1/2 ton

                    * Formerly owned

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                    • #11
                      Breath-taking stupidity!! The "carbon footprint" of an electric car is about 2 1/2 times that of a gas powered car before it even rolls the first mile. The battery tech requires rare elements that do not exist in adequate quantities for all cars to be electric. Most power plants are coal powered with more becoming gas powered. Every time you convert one form of energy to another you lose efficiency - as much as 90%. If there is anything stupider than a politician ( or more morally bankrupt) I've yet to identify it. They blame our pick-up trucks for rising atmospheric CO2 when the problem in the wanton destruction of rain forests and oceanic phytoplankton. It isn't the internal combustion engine that will kill us all--it is the morons in Washington, Paris, London, and Berlin

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                      • #12
                        When automobiles first became popular, a writer suggested stuffing some horses so every museum in the country could have one for future generations to see what had been an integral part of daily life, but now replaced. "With the coming of clean, efficient autos and farm equipment, in the near future no one will give stable room to horses; smelly, manure-generating, fractious beasts who have to be fed even when they're not working." Anything look familiar?

                        jack vines
                        PackardV8

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                        • #13
                          I'm a retired engineer and spent much of my career working at times for major electric utilities and at others for energy management (i.e., use reduction) companies. If government would like to clean up our environmental act, as should be done, they first need to work on the nation's electric power generation and distribution grid. As of right now, a switch from from gasoline to electric cars will mainly result in moving our fossil fuel use from petroleum to coal.
                          Manuel J. Martinez
                          Baton Rouge, LA

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mr moto View Post
                            If government would like to clean up our environmental act, as should be done, they first need to work on the nation's electric power generation and distribution grid.
                            Agree completely, but it isn't the government; we have met the enemy and he is us. It's all about who is going to pay for the cleanup. Yes, the technology to clean up coal fired generating plants is well proven and should have been implemented decades ago. Yes, most of us publicly claim to be in favor of cleaner air, but every adult is also a voter and will a clear majority actually vote to raise their monthly electric bill? Congress doesn't trust us to do what is right; too much experience to the contrary. Many big campaign donors are utility stockholders. Congress has been told unequivocally these guys don't want their dividends reduced.

                            Bottom line - it's always about the money.

                            jack vines

                            P.S. - this is getting way off topic and may not be a good subject for this forum.
                            PackardV8

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                            • #15
                              I think a lot of what is behind this is local air pollution problems in dense cities in Europe and Asia. The US has fewer such areas. Even trucks are going (or wanting to go) this route:

                              https://cleantechnica.com/2017/03/30...-testing-year/

                              There is A LOT of R&D going on right now with all the automotive/trucks/construction makers on hybrid and full electric vehicle drivetrains that does not get in the general news but easy to find articles about in the trade news. Buses and local delivery trucks are a prime target but earth moving equipment too.

                              As for banning gas vehicles, I think what happens is they phase them out over time and they get outright banned from entering certain places (dense city areas). Eventually, demand for fuel drops (and cost goes up) and that forces most of the remaining "beaters" off the roads. Not sure what happens to vintage/collectables but I doubt they get forcibly scrapped although I could imagine there being various incentives to do so.

                              Jeff in ND

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