New epa paint regulations for 2011

[556063]

The hobbyist exemption was not part of the rule when I wrote my legislators about it a couple years ago. Maybe some of our voices were heard.

There was about a 3-5 year period where no refrigerant was easily available off the shelf to individuals after R-12 was banned. There were also plans to restrict R-134A even further, but thankfully those seem to have been scrapped. Things usually work out, but they might not have had there not been a forceful enough opposition.

Kevin Wolford
Plymouth, IN

55 Champion
60 Lark VI Conv.
63 Avanti R1

[clarkwd]

re: Don't panic quite yet. It appears that hobbyists will be exempt
"The final rule also clarifies that these standards do not apply to paint stripping and surface coating performed by individuals as part of a hobby, or for maintenance of their personal vehicles, possessions and property, or when these activities are performed for others without compensation."

The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?

This rule does not hack me off as much as our collective failure to understand what was going on and the governments failure to communicate this to the people that were affected. Congress should keep busier working on baseball problems and leave the rest of the American public alone.
Bill Clark

[clarkwd]

re: Don't panic quite yet. It appears that hobbyists will be exempt
"The final rule also clarifies that these standards do not apply to paint stripping and surface coating performed by individuals as part of a hobby, or for maintenance of their personal vehicles, possessions and property, or when these activities are performed for others without compensation."

The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?

This rule does not hack me off as much as our collective failure to understand what was going on and the governments failure to communicate this to the people that were affected. Congress should keep busier working on baseball problems and leave the rest of the American public alone.
Bill Clark

[52 Ragtop]

All,
Yes the new paints are full of isocyanides and all kinds of bad "stuff" I buy NEW paint masks EVERY wek for my painters, in fact, we have 4 new ones in the supply room at all times. Beleive me, "we" as professional shops do not care about the hobbyist painting their car at home!
It's the "hack" shops that are rebuilding total loss wrecks and re selling them as a rebuilt and SAFE car, when they are not! There are many standards that MUST be followed when repairing a collision damaged vehicle. For instance, if we drill out 25 spot welds on a panel to replace it, we must put 25 spot welds back in. not 23, not 26, the "engineers" have designed modern cars to collapse in collisions, and the number of welds determine how that panel collapses.
I don't care if you do not want to spend the $$ at my shop to paint your "classic car", we are not set up for restoration work, and can't charge enough to make any money on doing restorations. My shop is set up to do collision work, we did just under 2.5 million in total sales last year, and my goals this year is to, increase business again. The faster we can get a can in the front door, and out the back door, the more money we make. I'm not trying to sound like a greedy SOB, but, there is no money in restorations!
The problem I have with an amature doing their own work, is everybody thinks: 1: plastic filler (bondo) will fix anything,(it won't, and it's not made to go on over 1/8" thick) 2: primer is waterproof (it's NOT)
As many of you know, I bought a 62 Daytona ragtop off eBay 4 years ago, "new Paint" well, after I pulled the body off the frame, cut the new rockers off, cut the floors, and pulled the body back together to get door gaps, and 3 years later I finished it. The guy I bought it from, welded in new floors, and did not bother to fit the doors. When he put it together, the door gaps were a good 1/2" tp 3/4", so to close the door gaps, he "bondo'd" up the weatherstrip channel on the 1/4!
If your going to do your own work, take a class and learn how to do it right.
The EPA comes after the bigger shops, they won't "jack" with a hobbyist, no offense, but, they want money and a lot of it! They would rather come visit me, and see if they can find out what I do with my hazardous waste, if my paint booths are up to snuff, I spent 12K cleaning them last year and replacing a control panel on one of them. Filters run about $600 every month, and since our booths are "bake ovens" our natural gas bill is approx. 5K a month.
BTW, most paint sores in the Indianapolis area will not sell to someone walking in off the street.

Jim

[52 Ragtop]

All,
Yes the new paints are full of isocyanides and all kinds of bad "stuff" I buy NEW paint masks EVERY wek for my painters, in fact, we have 4 new ones in the supply room at all times. Beleive me, "we" as professional shops do not care about the hobbyist painting their car at home!
It's the "hack" shops that are rebuilding total loss wrecks and re selling them as a rebuilt and SAFE car, when they are not! There are many standards that MUST be followed when repairing a collision damaged vehicle. For instance, if we drill out 25 spot welds on a panel to replace it, we must put 25 spot welds back in. not 23, not 26, the "engineers" have designed modern cars to collapse in collisions, and the number of welds determine how that panel collapses.
I don't care if you do not want to spend the $$ at my shop to paint your "classic car", we are not set up for restoration work, and can't charge enough to make any money on doing restorations. My shop is set up to do collision work, we did just under 2.5 million in total sales last year, and my goals this year is to, increase business again. The faster we can get a can in the front door, and out the back door, the more money we make. I'm not trying to sound like a greedy SOB, but, there is no money in restorations!
The problem I have with an amature doing their own work, is everybody thinks: 1: plastic filler (bondo) will fix anything,(it won't, and it's not made to go on over 1/8" thick) 2: primer is waterproof (it's NOT)
As many of you know, I bought a 62 Daytona ragtop off eBay 4 years ago, "new Paint" well, after I pulled the body off the frame, cut the new rockers off, cut the floors, and pulled the body back together to get door gaps, and 3 years later I finished it. The guy I bought it from, welded in new floors, and did not bother to fit the doors. When he put it together, the door gaps were a good 1/2" tp 3/4", so to close the door gaps, he "bondo'd" up the weatherstrip channel on the 1/4!
If your going to do your own work, take a class and learn how to do it right.
The EPA comes after the bigger shops, they won't "jack" with a hobbyist, no offense, but, they want money and a lot of it! They would rather come visit me, and see if they can find out what I do with my hazardous waste, if my paint booths are up to snuff, I spent 12K cleaning them last year and replacing a control panel on one of them. Filters run about $600 every month, and since our booths are "bake ovens" our natural gas bill is approx. 5K a month.
BTW, most paint sores in the Indianapolis area will not sell to someone walking in off the street.

Jim

[jnormanh]

"The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?"

clarkwd-

Here is the hobbyist exemption, right from the US Government, and dated Jan 9, 2008.

http://www.fedcenter.gov/Articles/in...30&pge_id=1854

[jnormanh]

"The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?"

clarkwd-

Here is the hobbyist exemption, right from the US Government, and dated Jan 9, 2008.

http://www.fedcenter.gov/Articles/in...30&pge_id=1854

[JRoberts]

quote:Originally posted by jnormanh

"The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?"

clarkwd-

Here is the hobbyist exemption, right from the US Government, and dated Jan 9, 2008.

http://www.fedcenter.gov/Articles/in...30&pge_id=1854

Thanks for the link.
I still don't understand how an individual can paint his/her own vehicle under this exemption. It says you can paint it, but how can you do that if you can't buy the paint. The way I understand it, you can strip your car and rattle can paint it. What am I missing?

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

[JRoberts]

quote:Originally posted by jnormanh

"The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?"

clarkwd-

Here is the hobbyist exemption, right from the US Government, and dated Jan 9, 2008.

http://www.fedcenter.gov/Articles/in...30&pge_id=1854

Thanks for the link.
I still don't understand how an individual can paint his/her own vehicle under this exemption. It says you can paint it, but how can you do that if you can't buy the paint. The way I understand it, you can strip your car and rattle can paint it. What am I missing?

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

[259man]

quote:Originally posted by JRoberts

quote:Originally posted by jnormanh

"The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?"

clarkwd-

Here is the hobbyist exemption, right from the US Government, and dated Jan 9, 2008.

http://www.fedcenter.gov/Articles/in...30&pge_id=1854

Thanks for the link.
I still don't understand how an individual can paint his/her own vehicle under this exemption. It says you can paint it, but how can you do that if you can't buy the paint. The way I understand it, you can strip your car and rattle can paint it. What am I missing?

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

I e-mailed Susan Lancey at the EPA a couple of weeks ago about this. Much to her credit, she responded to me within a few hours.

As has been mentioned earlier in this post, there is an exemption for hobbyists who paint no more than two cars per year. She referred me to the page in the regulation that provides for this exemption.

As far as a ban on the sale of automotive paint to the general public, she said "(t)he regulation does not limit the sale of autobody paints to licensed painters. I am unaware of such a regulation."

I hope she is unaware because there is no such regulation pending. I've heard 2011 mentioned several times as the "day of reckoning," but I would like to see the specific regulations or proposals to back this claim up.

And, yes, navigating the EPA's website is an absolute NIGHTMARE!!!!!



Tom
1960 Lark VIII
1962 Lark Cruiser

[259man]

quote:Originally posted by JRoberts

quote:Originally posted by jnormanh

"The URL above is the Sept 17 proposed rule and can be read in its beautiful entirety in the PDF. The note that hobbiests have gotten an exemption does not have a reference to any government rule. I read it on the AACA website and asked a month ago for someone to tell me where it came from and have not gotten a reply. Where is the official government statement on this exemption?"

clarkwd-

Here is the hobbyist exemption, right from the US Government, and dated Jan 9, 2008.

http://www.fedcenter.gov/Articles/in...30&pge_id=1854

Thanks for the link.
I still don't understand how an individual can paint his/her own vehicle under this exemption. It says you can paint it, but how can you do that if you can't buy the paint. The way I understand it, you can strip your car and rattle can paint it. What am I missing?

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

I e-mailed Susan Lancey at the EPA a couple of weeks ago about this. Much to her credit, she responded to me within a few hours.

As has been mentioned earlier in this post, there is an exemption for hobbyists who paint no more than two cars per year. She referred me to the page in the regulation that provides for this exemption.

As far as a ban on the sale of automotive paint to the general public, she said "(t)he regulation does not limit the sale of autobody paints to licensed painters. I am unaware of such a regulation."

I hope she is unaware because there is no such regulation pending. I've heard 2011 mentioned several times as the "day of reckoning," but I would like to see the specific regulations or proposals to back this claim up.

And, yes, navigating the EPA's website is an absolute NIGHTMARE!!!!!



Tom
1960 Lark VIII
1962 Lark Cruiser

[countryboy]

I just pulled the 26 page Federal Registry report, and one has to be a Rocket Scientist to read and understand that thing. At least my Body man's wife has a photographic memory, and maybe she can read this thing and explain the fine details of it. No way will I try to read this report, but from first glance it looks like a two man body shop will be out of business if they even attempt to adhere to the rulings given. My body shop has a paint booth, but I don't know if it will meet the requirements asked for in this ruling. All that is left for the painting of my 50 Champion is the hood and deck lid, so maybe I had better get those two items painted, before the Govment comes in there and closes down his shop.
Possibly another case where two people are out on the streets looking for a job, and one of the finest body shops in North Carolina bites the dust.

[countryboy]

I just pulled the 26 page Federal Registry report, and one has to be a Rocket Scientist to read and understand that thing. At least my Body man's wife has a photographic memory, and maybe she can read this thing and explain the fine details of it. No way will I try to read this report, but from first glance it looks like a two man body shop will be out of business if they even attempt to adhere to the rulings given. My body shop has a paint booth, but I don't know if it will meet the requirements asked for in this ruling. All that is left for the painting of my 50 Champion is the hood and deck lid, so maybe I had better get those two items painted, before the Govment comes in there and closes down his shop.
Possibly another case where two people are out on the streets looking for a job, and one of the finest body shops in North Carolina bites the dust.

[jnormanh]

I think Susan Lancey has told you the truth; there is no ban on the sale of paint to hobbyists, at least in Federal regulations. There may be some state regs, as in CA.

As you learned, the folks at EPA can be helpful if you only ask them.

[jnormanh]

I think Susan Lancey has told you the truth; there is no ban on the sale of paint to hobbyists, at least in Federal regulations. There may be some state regs, as in CA.

As you learned, the folks at EPA can be helpful if you only ask them.