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  • Patina or Perfection, What a Question

    Well Mr. Bob you’ve done it again. What a great editorial in HCC #156.

    First you bring up a great subject about segments of the collector’s market including trucks, station wagons and original cars. So, what is one supposed to do when he has vehicles that fits two of these categories and then a totally restored vehicle as well? What is he to take to a show, a cruise or a car and coffee event? Personally, I vary them depending on how I feel. I drive them all to all kinds of events but must confess my original 63 GT Hawk and my (titled as) 61 T-Cab ( VIN indicates it is actually the 3rd 62 off of the line) are my favorites and draw the most attention. Well, I guess my Avanti R-2 does too.


    The Hawk generate a lot of conversation because of a few dings and scratches but the chrome and interior soon change one’s perspective as they realize the car is as I say an “original.”


    Your comments as to a definition of an original, I am sure provokes much thought in many but in my humble opinion a great one. The individual who you sold the 66 Cruiser to is indeed going to have a ball sharing with folks that his car is really “original.”


    Thank you, Mr. Bob, for producing another great piece on our cars.
    sigpicSee you in the future as I write about our past

  • #2
    OK, Cool! Now which Brand of Cereal do we buy to get our "Secret Decoder" to find this "HCC# 156"?
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      It's called Hemmings Classic Cars magazine.
      The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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      • #4
        'Google' is the "secret decoder" of choice now.

        Craig

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        • #5
          From what I've seen at auctions the "unmolested" vehicle always seems to get the highest bids. There is an over-abundance of "custom" and "resto-mods" being offered these days along with complete restorations. It's the original car that has become the rarest and now most difficult to find. A bone stock 57' Chevy will bring more interest and dollars than a "custom," or fully restored one. That does seem to be the trend. As the saying goes: "it's only original once." Personally I prefer the originals.

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          • #6
            Thanks, guys; 'glad you enjoyed it. That column is in the current (dated September 2017) Hemmings Classic Car. Single-issue copies are now on the newsstands (Barnes & Noble, etc.).

            It won't be available for free reading on the Hemmings website until the next issue comes out, unless Craig found it earlier!

            I never had any money in the 1966 Cruiser: It is now Bill Pressler's car, discussed here in a couple earlier threads.

            My involvement was pointing out to Bill the seller's subtle hint here on the forum that he might sell it. It was barely an hour's drive away from me, so I offered to check it out for Bill. He wanted just that type of car but had been burned one too many times by dishonest seller descriptions. As it turned out, the Cruiser's owner/seller, John Thompson here on the forum, had described the car honestly to Bill. Good vibes all around, thankfully.

            Once I had checked out the car for Bill and gave it and John a double thumbs up, John and Bill discussed price directly and transferred the money independently of me. BP
            We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

            Ayn Rand:
            "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

            G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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            • #7
              Another vote for originals. I haven't yet had an opportunity to see the editorial in HCC.

              My 56J and Speedster aren't totally original. Each has had one decent repaint decades ago, some refurbishing of interior details. But those are the cars I will likely hang onto for as long as I am still driving. Maybe the R2 Avanti also.

              My Avanti is an odd duck. The prior owner (since '65) sent it from Illinois to Avanti Motors in South Bend for repairs following front end body damage in the early seventies. In the process Avanti Motors updated the car... square headlights, later style battery placement, improved (Avanti II) engine compartment ventilation, etc. Definitely not for serious judging, but an arguably improved and quite attractive Avanti. From introduction, there was always talk of subsequently offering updates, retrofits and improvements on Avantis. But no mention of crunching the nose of the car to accomplish it.

              I've also enjoyed the quest for perfection. There was the '53 Packard Caribbean which needed complete restoration. Then a few years later there was the Packard Hawk, professional cosmetics done on an excellent low-mileage original. Finding rare NOS parts was part of the fun. Both were Post War Best of Show (different years) in Packards International events. But having achieved these things, I later sold the Caribbean. I'm preparing to sell the Packard Hawk (still in show condition).

              My remaining cars have their patina and (for me) more enduring appeal.
              Last edited by riversidevw; 07-19-2017, 06:07 PM.
              Gil Zimmerman
              Riverside, CA

              1955 Speedster
              1956 Golden Hawk
              1958 Packard Hawk
              1958 President
              1963 Avanti R2

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              • #8
                I am indeed the mystery owner of the car in Bob's current HCC column!

                Sounds vain maybe, but I love just walking around the car. It is a time capsule. Not perfect, but like a few-year-old car. And I've never owned a Studebaker before where the doors closed with a solid 'thunk' like this one does!
                Bill Pressler
                Kent, OH
                (formerly Greenville, PA)
                Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
                Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
                1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
                1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
                All are in Australia now

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
                  I've never owned a Studebaker before where the doors closed with a solid 'thunk' like this one does!
                  I don't think you'd do well owning a mostly original 1971 Barracuda convertible, Bill... BP
                  We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                  Ayn Rand:
                  "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                  G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If I had lots of money, I'd probably send mine off, one at a time, to be restored to perfection. Then I could drive that one while another one was sent off, then another, till they were all percect. That won't happen, unless I win the lotto, and since you gotta play to win, that's not gonna happen either. So I will just continue to drive mine as they are, and be content. The 56J was painted in 1987, and the paint is getting a little thin now, but it'll last another 20 years or so, by then I really won't care what it looks like.

                    If I had to choose, patina driver versus perfect TQ, patina would win, hands down.

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                    • #11
                      My choice is patina . Ive said it before ..my daily driver 56 chevy pick up gets WAY MORE attention and comments compared to my 57 big window chevy , the 57 has a very expensive paint job an original 57 color , matador red ,american mags ,all new chrome, hot 400 small block. The 56 has original paint , some very nice faux signage on the doors , hot 400 small block , american mags. And the best part is i can park the 56 where ever whenever and dont worry about dings etc..My lark is going to stay its original Tahiti Choral ... And i can laugh my ass off as i show its tail lights to a few unsuspecting youngsters wondering what the hell was that?

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                      • #12
                        I'm definitely in favor of driving them! As such it is really an argument for never doing a #1 restoration since that implies a job done better than factory in most cases.
                        Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by t walgamuth View Post
                          I'm definitely in favor of driving them! As such it is really an argument for never doing a #1 restoration since that implies a job done better than factory in most cases.
                          I couldn't agree more! As of the moment, my 64 Champ is my daily driver (by necessity), but even if it weren't, I would still use it (carefully) as a truck, just the way it was meant to be. Even with its old paint job, just about its only non-original feature, it garners plenty of thumbs up every week. My vote is patina!
                          Mike Davis
                          Regional Manager, North Carolina
                          1964 Champ 8E7-122 "Stuey"

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                          • #14
                            The 66 Cruiser I sold Bill Pressler I bought off Ebay a few years ago, a shout out goes to the seller as being very honest on the cars description. I saw the add and talked to the owner on the phone. Than gambled an bought it and had it shipped sight unseen other than the Ebay add. I was amazed at how original it was when it was delivered. Nicer than I anticipated and too nice for what I wanted, as I wanted a daily driver. I bought a 63 R1 Cruiser around a year later that wasn't as original. Since I like to "Drive it like I stole it" I decided to sell the 66 to someone who would treat it better than I would, and keep the 63.
                            Last edited by joncon; 07-19-2017, 05:12 PM.

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                            • #15
                              For a car to be a truly great survivor, the car must have been cared for over a long period of time. Chances of that happening are rare and that is why it would be a sin to modify such a car. Modifying an old car is perfectly acceptable in my book and certainly preferred should you be looking for something to drive a lot. So if that's what you want to do, fine, just don't start with a survivor. There are plenty of classics out there that need restoration or upgrade modifications. Save one of them instead. This is where I agree with the purists.

                              Always love HCC when it has a Bob Palma article. It's great to have a friend that is brilliant AND famous....
                              Jon Stalnaker
                              Karel Staple Chapter SDC

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