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Another great barn find-- Rare! Opinions please?

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  • #61
    I enjoy and can appreciate the labor and skill (and investments) involved in both stock and modified vehicles. I suspect the rap against customizers is because most of us have seen solid, restorable vehicles irrevocably buggered by knuckleheads to the point that they are only good as parts cars. Purists get on their high horse and look down their noses at those that dare to replace a dead generator with an unauthentic alternator -- and customizers often flaunt their skills and disparage those that do not possess the same talents and time. Not all of us want to invest the research and parts searching to restore an old vehicle properly -- and not all of us want to update a 60-year old vehicle to use as a daily driver.

    Climate plays a role, too. Folks who live on the West Coast and the Southwest can take advantage of a mostly dry warm climate. Us rust-belters often have a beater that we drive 4 or 5 months of the year. Diffrent strokes . . . . .
    Skip Lackie

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    • #62
      Skip,

      I have seen way more restorable cars relegated to demise because somebody simply ran out of money or couldn't find suitable replacement parts than I have with people trying customize them. The purists want to jump on the band wagon and chirp their little derogatory statements when most have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. All the claims of high tech engineers and designers, how do ya'll feel about them airbags blowing everyone apart, the BMW's catching fire after sitting for hours and burning up houses and people--- two things I don't trust, Engineers and designers. I use them both in my business and I'm always sending RFI'S and change orders due to the fact that most of time they didn't think it through. Same thing happens in the car business, There's a ton of them on ebay right now. Everybody was all, eewwing and ahhwing at the original 56, first thing the poster started crowing about was putting some Chrysler wire wheels on it that wouldn't work--- oh and let's not forget the Turner brakes. Wait, we have to have a 374 Packard motor and a special crank now, Oh I almost forgot--- let's rebuild and keep them non original 2x4 carbs and manifold, surely nobody will notice that--- lets keep it original though LOL! The purists on here have their own little niche, they can modify theirs all day long with those still antiquated parts but the minute we add something not Studebaker (we're foolish.) About the biggest double standard bunch I ever been around.
      Last edited by StudebakerGene; 05-15-2017, 03:15 PM.
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      • #63
        Gene-- first of all I owe you an apology. Using the word "foolishness" in my description of my plans for this car was offensive I can see, but that wasn't my intent. I thought my post was simply stating my opinion, it was not meant to criticize you, which I clearly said. I have never and will never "go up to someone's car and start berating it". I know, for example, some cars get Rodded because they're too far gone to restore, I have no problem with that. I do regret that some Rodders don't seem to recognize or maybe even care about the fact they may be destroying a historical artifact, which some special cars certainly are. Would you feel good about altering the Mona Lisa just because you don't like her smile, and can "make it better"?
        I also feel what I said wasn't carefully read. I NEVER SAID I WAS KEEPING IT STOCK. It will be all Studebaker, that's how I like it. I even used my wife's non- stock Silver Hawk as an example. Please cool off, and let's get together at some future meet and have a beer, whaddya say?
        1950 Commander Land Cruiser
        1951 Champion Business Coupe
        1951 Commander Starlight
        1952 Champion 2Dr. Sedan
        1953 Champion Starlight
        1953 Commander Starliner
        1953 2R5
        1956 Golden Hawk Jet Streak
        1957 Silver Hawk
        1957 3E5 Pick-Up
        1959 Silver Hawk
        1961 Hawk
        1962 Cruiser 4 speed
        1963 Daytona Convertible
        1964 Daytona R2 4 speed
        1965 Cruiser
        1970 Avanti

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        • #64
          Gene, you have a right to ruin your vehicle, IMHO, however you like. Just like any car owner. I and other people have the right to attempt keeping our cars as much Studebaker as it is possible to do and still have them run properly. Your argument against the designers of modern cars has no bearing on Studebakers.

          It is well known around here I really don't like most modified and adulterated vehicles. However, that is my opinion. Your vituperate rant is neither appreciated nor respected as it shows disrespect for every opinion but your own. I was remaining silent up to this point because the conversation was polite and you have jumped the pales, in my humble opinion.

          Now, if you don't mind, may we please return to the original subject of discussion here regarding a great find by Kenny? I, for one, am curious as to his progress.
          Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
          K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
          Ron Smith
          Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

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          • #65
            drrotor,

            Thank you for that apology, it wasn't that hard. You and I can have a beer and discuss our cars anytime. I try not to be "over sensitive," but sometimes words just don't come out right from any of us, and I respect that. I love all things Studebaker, with that said I applaud your desire to really make this car "POP." The way that you obtain that is, your right of passage, anyway you choose, not what someone else thinks. I have been around car clubs all my life and the purists/non purists split seems to be more apparent here than elsewhere and it shouldn't be that way. The custom Studebakers that are out there only enhance and stimulate other peoples ideas as to form. I love them stock and customized equally but I am also an educated "realist," reality sometimes strikes a different chord.

            Mr Studeclunker:

            fo-rum
            noun
            1.) a place, meeting or medium where ideas on a particular issue can be exchanged.

            I copied the definition of a forum in case you haven't ever read it, you should because the concept also allows you to "chime " in as well as others. You may not like my views and I yours, but that's what makes a forum so inviting. As you spread your unfounded views "Your argument against the designers of modern cars has no bearing on Studebakers." Did you come up with that all by yourself? Or did you just only read that parts that inflamed you. The post began touting the millions of dollars in engineering and development and how could we customizers stand up against all that with our lowly aptitude. It wasn't all that but basically what it implied. I hope you have this months Turning wheels, if so please turn to page 24 and read the opening statement, I'm quoting here "The entire truck body engineering department consisted of myself and a Cherokee Indian named Al Weatherman, for development we got ten dollars here and there." Damn, that really gives me a warm sense of engineering at it's best, doesn't it you? Unless Showbiz Kid or some other moderator put you in charge I would suggest that you get some "tougher" skin and grow a "pair" because you wont last long in a real debate/forum situation. You see that's the whole problem, me and drrotor made our statements and we are all good with it, no harm done, that's why it's called a forum! As to your opening statement about I can ruin my vehicle any way I want, That's about inflammatory as it gets. Who died and made you the "Pope?" I really don't give a damn where you want to get back to reading and to be quite honest we have all listened to your sniveling about why this car wont be here and this car wont be there because they are all broke down. My ruined modified vehicle made it just fine to Stockton and everyone there had a great time, too bad your stocker didn't. "you build them your way and I'll build them mine," great quote!

            p.s. I don't know where Fawn Lodge is located but I'm pretty sure it's close to "purists heaven" just down the road a ways from "my stuff is better than yours." get a grip!
            Last edited by StudebakerGene; 05-16-2017, 03:44 PM.
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            • #66
              Originally posted by StudebakerGene View Post
              Skip,

              I have seen way more restorable cars relegated to demise because somebody simply ran out of money or couldn't find suitable replacement parts than I have with people trying customize them. The purists want to jump on the band wagon and chirp their little derogatory statements when most have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. All the claims of high tech engineers and designers, how do ya'll feel about them airbags blowing everyone apart, the BMW's catching fire after sitting for hours and burning up houses and people--- two things I don't trust, Engineers and designers. I use them both in my business and I'm always sending RFI'S and change orders due to the fact that most of time they didn't think it through. Same thing happens in the car business, There's a ton of them on ebay right now. Everybody was all, eewwing and ahhwing at the original 56, first thing the poster started crowing about was putting some Chrysler wire wheels on it that wouldn't work--- oh and let's not forget the Turner brakes. Wait, we have to have a 374 Packard motor and a special crank now, Oh I almost forgot--- let's rebuild and keep them non original 2x4 carbs and manifold, surely nobody will notice that--- lets keep it original though LOL! The purists on here have their own little niche, they can modify theirs all day long with those still antiquated parts but the minute we add something not Studebaker (we're foolish.) About the biggest double standard bunch I ever been around.
              In my previous post I tried to be conciliatory, pointing out that plenty of us like both original and modified vehicles, and also opining that it can also take a lot of effort (though maybe less imagination) to restore a car to original specs. Maybe I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself. Your response to my post sounds to me like the same kind of rant that you accuse others of; eg, bringing in Takata airbags is a bit of a stretch. You should be very proud of your truck and the skill you have demonstrated in building and modifying it. But i don't think that those that prefer original cars are necessarily your enemy.
              Skip Lackie

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              • #67
                I have tried to avoid controversy by keeping mine as original as possible, except for a few changes to improve the driveability. It is completely stock except for the engine, transmission, front suspension, rear suspension, front and rear brakes, driveshaft, radiator, fuel tank, throttle, clutch and brake pedals, instruments, wheels, exhaust system, modified bumpers and lack of a hood ornament.

                Twice in recent weeks I have had someone walk up to the car, look it over and say "It is a 48, isn't it". I rarely go to the grocery store, parts store, gas station or anywhere else without someone telling me that it is really a beautiful car. I have never owned a car that got so much positive response, from people who know exactly what it is and people who have no idea what it is. I am sure Kenny gets similar response when people see his Hawk - it is a really beautiful restoration. My point is that if you want to impress people that Studebakers are "cool" cars, the important thing is the quality of the restoration/modification, not how faithful it is to every detail of the original.

                Click image for larger version

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                Trying to build a 48 Studebaker for the 21st century.
                See more of my projects at stilettoman.info

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                • #68
                  Kenny and I made our peace, I understand what he meant, and it wasn't quite as bad as some of the critiquing and insults that I have gotten on this forum. I am also very jealous of his car, I would love to own it and probably would do exactly what he's doing as well. All my vehicles aren't modified and I totally respect others prized possession just as much as mine. It seems as though the purists have ruled this forum and have exacted their "scorn" just about any way they see fit, I kind of understand some of it but that doesn't mean I approve of it. We all have our views, but the minute someone on here starts do belittle me, my car, or my abilities, I'm going to give it right back to you, that's why they call it a forum, to exchange ideas and views. I lean more towards real information and not what everybody thinks I.E. my statement about Engineers. Did you guys read the quote from the Turning Wheels, made me wonder who the engineers for the chassis's were, "Jack Largousky and some Chinese coolie named one hung low," and they gave them $20 dollars. The purists band together and give each other a little more nudge each post with no substantial backup. I understand we customizers are the minority for now but hopefully that will change where we can all be equal, That's all I'm asking for. Don't put me down and expect me to roll over just because you think I ruined my car. Kenny made a Statement about The Mona Lisa and asked would I change it because I didn't like it. The Mona Lisa was actually painted over by da Vinci himself because he didn't like it. Point is we all don't like the same thing but lets all try and stop belittling each other---

                  P.S. I didn't fire the first shot on this one but like I said, if you want to give it, expect to get it back because you have certainly met a competent adversary if that's the way you choose to go!
                  Last edited by StudebakerGene; 05-17-2017, 05:04 PM.
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                  • #69
                    I consider Studes as drivers, and would not know what to do with a, "quality restoration", since I'd be afraid to drive it. I place priority on reliability, dependability, safety, and stock-like external appearance. I prefer to keep them all Studebaker, but its not always practical; no qualms installing a GM tranny; 2005 Chrysler Sebring convertible front seats, 3rd brake light, etc..

                    I appreciate customs also. Every summer at the Street Rod Nationals in Louisville, there are about 50,000 of them, and maybe 500 stock appearing classics. The customs are nice to look at, especially the trick accessories and creativity. But with so many of them, as far as the eye can see, it becomes like sensory overload. After awhile, I just stand and look at rows and rows of them from afar. But if I spy a stock looking classic, I'll walk the distance to look closer.

                    So I guess I am a middle of the road kinda guy. I appreciate customs and, "restored" cars, especially Studes. But personally would not know what to do with either of them.

                    I seldom raise the hood on my car at any event. Either of the above groups would look at my engine bay in horror. I am sure most customs will go faster and handle better, but that's kinda mute to me, as long as the Stude is reasonably safe, reliable and presentable. So when I leave the Street Rod Nationals, or an SDC meet, I walk to my car in the parking lot, drive it home, and enjoy every mile. To each their own. There's room enough for all of us here.

                    I know the purists kinda rule the roost here, but when anyone becomes too abrasive, whatever they are positing quickly becomes a turn off for me. No reason for anyone to get their BP up. Probably not good for any of us anyway. LOL
                    Last edited by JoeHall; 05-17-2017, 09:37 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
                      I consider Studes as drivers, and would not know what to do with a, "quality restoration", since I'd be afraid to drive it. I place priority on reliability, dependability, safety, and stock-like external appearance. I prefer to keep them all Studebaker, but its not always practical; no qualms installing a GM tranny; 2005 Chrysler Sebring convertible front seats, 3rd brake light, etc..

                      I appreciate customs also. Every summer at the Street Rod Nationals in Louisville, there are about 50,000 of them, and maybe 500 stock appearing classics. The customs are nice to look at, especially the trick accessories and creativity. But with so many of them, as far as the eye can see, it becomes like sensory overload. After awhile, I just stand and look at rows and rows of them from afar. But if I spy a stock looking classic, I'll walk the distance to look closer.

                      So I guess I am a middle of the road kinda guy. I appreciate customs and, "restored" cars, especially Studes. But personally would not know what to do with either of them.

                      I seldom raise the hood on my car at any event. Either of the above groups would look at my engine bay in horror. I am sure most customs will go faster and handle better, but that's kinda mute to me, as long as the Stude is reasonably safe, reliable and presentable. So when I leave the Street Rod Nationals, or an SDC meet, I walk to my car in the parking lot, drive it home, and enjoy every mile. To each their own. There's room enough for all of us here.

                      I know the purists kinda rule the roost here, but when anyone becomes too abrasive, whatever they are positing quickly becomes a turn off for me. No reason for anyone to get their BP up. Probably not good for any of us anyway. LOL
                      Well stated and definitely what we all need to strive for. All of us need to drive our cars and smile no matter what our personal preferences are. I have been venturing over to Studebaker Addicts and fortunately for some of you, I don't think I'll be back to this forum and really don't feel the need. The bickering, snide comments, and outright buswhacking have me throwing in the "towel." You are right Joe, my blood pressure can't handle it!
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                      • #71
                        Love hot rods and modifieds. Lifelong passionate about Studebaker's. Especially those rare 56J's. To me having that big Packard mill under the hood is what owning a classic 56J is all about. Pure top of The Class of '56 cruiser/bruiser nostalgia. No way would I ever want to swap that old iron monster out for anything other than a even BIGGER Packard, like that poked n' stroked Isky crammed 414 that came up for sale a few years ago. But hooked up to an out of sight modern strong and trouble free overdrive automatic, and 9" so's that I could kick the hell out of it daily without frying it.
                        I don't own a '56J, but I do have a '62 Lark and a dual-quad equipped 390 Cad on the engine stand that I would love to get together. So not a purest by a long shot.
                        Got a totally stock '64 Daytona HT with 259 three-on-the tree & overdrive. Just like I owed as a teen in '67, so it will stay unmolested stock for as long as I own it.
                        My old '48 M-5 farm truck an all stock 'project' that I've yet to get around to, would certainly benefit from a modern suspension and drivetrain. Stock it would be a veritable unsafe nightmare to drive in todays traffic. Different vehicles, different qualities, different approaches.
                        No definitive 'RIGHT WAY' to build, only what pleases the owner, whom should keep in mind that if a vehicle is extremely rare and considered desirable stock, radical modifications are not likely to be well accepted by the 'dyed in wool' long time enthusiasts of that model.

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