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  • #46
    quote:Originally posted by 53k
    Unless I'm turned around (which isn't uncommon), the octane ratings we remember from our youth were higher in number, but were pretty comparable in performance to what we buy today.
    Good read!

    With a 10 point average difference between MON and RON (RON being higher) and with the "old" method of putting RON on the pump "back in the day", that would make the "old" 98 octane gas equal to today's 93 octane.


    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Comment


    • #47
      quote:Originally posted by 53k
      Unless I'm turned around (which isn't uncommon), the octane ratings we remember from our youth were higher in number, but were pretty comparable in performance to what we buy today.
      Good read!

      With a 10 point average difference between MON and RON (RON being higher) and with the "old" method of putting RON on the pump "back in the day", that would make the "old" 98 octane gas equal to today's 93 octane.


      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

      Comment


      • #48
        quote:
        What's the highest octane pump gas available in the U.S? Here in Canada Sunoco sells 94 octane.
        Todd
        This is really one of those, depends on where you go, kinda questions. The Gas City here and the Marathon sell 100 octane. Course the Gas City is a recent station, and the Marathon is a much older corner gas station type, so with RON and MON, the octane, although near the same octane rating, could be like night and day. If your really ambitious, theres the Sunoco 112 at the track, but my pockets aren't that deep to be running that everyday[)].


        1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
        1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
        [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
        [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
        [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
        [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
        1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
        1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
        1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
        1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

        Comment


        • #49
          quote:
          What's the highest octane pump gas available in the U.S? Here in Canada Sunoco sells 94 octane.
          Todd
          This is really one of those, depends on where you go, kinda questions. The Gas City here and the Marathon sell 100 octane. Course the Gas City is a recent station, and the Marathon is a much older corner gas station type, so with RON and MON, the octane, although near the same octane rating, could be like night and day. If your really ambitious, theres the Sunoco 112 at the track, but my pockets aren't that deep to be running that everyday[)].


          1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
          1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
          [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
          [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
          [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
          [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
          1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
          1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
          1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
          1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

          Comment


          • #50
            I've seen a couple of comments here concerning the octane boost additives. I have found that the R1 in my Champ does ping, especially in warmer weather, unless I use the octane boost stuff. I also use 93 octane pump gas. In the cooler months I can use the mid-grade fuel with no additive with no ping. Am I hurting anything by using the octane boost additive?

            Joe Roberts
            '61 R1 Champ
            '65 Cruiser
            Editor of "The Down Easterner"
            Eastern North Carolina Chapter
            Joe Roberts
            '61 R1 Champ
            '65 Cruiser
            Eastern North Carolina Chapter

            Comment


            • #51
              I've seen a couple of comments here concerning the octane boost additives. I have found that the R1 in my Champ does ping, especially in warmer weather, unless I use the octane boost stuff. I also use 93 octane pump gas. In the cooler months I can use the mid-grade fuel with no additive with no ping. Am I hurting anything by using the octane boost additive?

              Joe Roberts
              '61 R1 Champ
              '65 Cruiser
              Editor of "The Down Easterner"
              Eastern North Carolina Chapter
              Joe Roberts
              '61 R1 Champ
              '65 Cruiser
              Eastern North Carolina Chapter

              Comment


              • #52
                I have a '62 Corvair Pick-up that has a high compression 110hp air cooled 6 that I drive regularly all summer long using a mixture of 25% 100LL aviation gasoline and 75% unleaded car gas. I found that if I simply retarded the timing the engine would tend to "diesel" when turning it off after it got hot. I reset the timing to specs and have not had any problems running this mixture for several years. For further info you can go to the last postings of the thread below.

                http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...TOPIC_ID=15305

                Bob Picard
                1951 2R16A Fuel Truck
                Anchor Point, Alaska

                Comment


                • #53
                  I have a '62 Corvair Pick-up that has a high compression 110hp air cooled 6 that I drive regularly all summer long using a mixture of 25% 100LL aviation gasoline and 75% unleaded car gas. I found that if I simply retarded the timing the engine would tend to "diesel" when turning it off after it got hot. I reset the timing to specs and have not had any problems running this mixture for several years. For further info you can go to the last postings of the thread below.

                  http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...TOPIC_ID=15305

                  Bob Picard
                  1951 2R16A Fuel Truck
                  Anchor Point, Alaska

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    A few words on fuels/spark knock.....

                    We hammered the fuels subject last year. When you have spark knock in our engines there's a couple of serious considerations, the first being that modern fuels are simply not compatible with our "old school" engines. If you have a high compression engine OR (as is usually the case in non-high compression engines), your engine has any carbon build up in the cylinders, new fuels will make life for your old engine especially difficult.

                    We can use fairly simple remedies for modern fuels, the quickest, main fix being adjusting the timing down and careful carburetor tuning, which obviously requires a lot of "tune & test & maintenance". However, unfortunately, pulling your heads and thoroughly cleaning the carbon build up in the chambers and on top of the valves is the most beneficial of all. Alternately, you must ALWAYS use the highest octane fuel that you can find. It will have the slowest, most controlled burn rate, helping with knock due to high compression and carbon build up. Oh! Adding diesel fuel to every tank will also go a long way to making modern fuels more palatable to our "old school" engines.

                    Here's a couple of last year's discussions....

                    http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...chTerms=diesel

                    http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...chTerms=diesel

                    Hope it helps. Happy New Year everybody!!

                    Sonny
                    http://RacingStudebakers.com
                    Sonny
                    http://RacingStudebakers.com

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      A few words on fuels/spark knock.....

                      We hammered the fuels subject last year. When you have spark knock in our engines there's a couple of serious considerations, the first being that modern fuels are simply not compatible with our "old school" engines. If you have a high compression engine OR (as is usually the case in non-high compression engines), your engine has any carbon build up in the cylinders, new fuels will make life for your old engine especially difficult.

                      We can use fairly simple remedies for modern fuels, the quickest, main fix being adjusting the timing down and careful carburetor tuning, which obviously requires a lot of "tune & test & maintenance". However, unfortunately, pulling your heads and thoroughly cleaning the carbon build up in the chambers and on top of the valves is the most beneficial of all. Alternately, you must ALWAYS use the highest octane fuel that you can find. It will have the slowest, most controlled burn rate, helping with knock due to high compression and carbon build up. Oh! Adding diesel fuel to every tank will also go a long way to making modern fuels more palatable to our "old school" engines.

                      Here's a couple of last year's discussions....

                      http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...chTerms=diesel

                      http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...chTerms=diesel

                      Hope it helps. Happy New Year everybody!!

                      Sonny
                      http://RacingStudebakers.com
                      Sonny
                      http://RacingStudebakers.com

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Greetings, All,

                        Sonny is our main man over at Racing Studebakers and I agree with him on most everything. However, I'll respectfully disagree with adding diesel fuel. I have not found it to do anything positive to reduce ping. I'm willing to learn, so Sonny, give us some scientific sources to read up on and the rationale if diesel is beneficial, why aren't the manufacturers adding it from the get-go?

                        thnx, jack vines

                        PackardV8
                        PackardV8

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Greetings, All,

                          Sonny is our main man over at Racing Studebakers and I agree with him on most everything. However, I'll respectfully disagree with adding diesel fuel. I have not found it to do anything positive to reduce ping. I'm willing to learn, so Sonny, give us some scientific sources to read up on and the rationale if diesel is beneficial, why aren't the manufacturers adding it from the get-go?

                          thnx, jack vines

                          PackardV8
                          PackardV8

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

                            Greetings, All,

                            Sonny is our main man over at Racing Studebakers and I agree with him on most everything. However, I'll respectfully disagree with adding diesel fuel. I have not found it to do anything positive to reduce ping. I'm willing to learn, so Sonny, give us some scientific sources to read up on and the rationale if diesel is beneficial, why aren't the manufacturers adding it from the get-go?

                            thnx, jack vines

                            PackardV8
                            Hey Jack!

                            You're our main man too, and I love ya just like my very own brother! I agree with you, completely! Heck, I never thought that diesel would reduce ping, don't remember ever saying it did. In fact, here's what I said last year, (keeping in mind that this post was addressing fuels in general, along with the benefits of mixing diesel in particular.) Oh! Spark knock = ping

                            [quote]quote:Originally posted by Sonny on 07/31/2006 : 7:57:40 PM "
                            .........I didn't want to get into the scientific comparison of gasoline and diesel), comparing an octane rating (gasoline) to a cetane rating (diesel), couldn't be further removed, (VERY apples and oranges....). Not trying to be a know-it-all, or mean spirited about it, but it takes some knowledge of the unique properties of these, actually very different, fuels to understand their ability to work together.

                            For public information, and ONLY as a classification/qualification of these fuels, a cetane rating is considered the diesel equivalent to gasoline's octane rating. However, unlike an octane rating, which rates gasoline's resistance to spontaneous ignition, the cetane rating number (usually 40 to 55 for medium to high speed engines) notes the ease with which diesel fuel ignites. Bottom line, the higher the cetane number, the fuel ignites easier, the higher the octane number, the fuel ignites harder.

                            Highway vehicles use the diesel classifications, 1D and 2D, the main difference is viscosity and pour point, (1D during cold weather is thinner and 2D during warmer weather, thicker). A 2D fuel is preferred always because it has a higher viscosity and pour point. The higher viscosity provides better lubrication qualities for the moving parts of the diesel engine's expensive and complicated fuel injection system. Because 2D fuels contain more Btu's per gallon, they are able to deliver more power per gallon. This is critical to diesel engine power and economy. The higher the BTU rating a diesel fuel has, the greater power yield per gallon; thus, higher power begets better economy.

                            Now, concerning higher octane rating, the slower the burn when ignited during the compression burn cycle of the piston allows for better control of burning for high compression engines. So, the idea of "octane rating" is to be able to match the correct gasoline to a particular engine design to ensure complete burning of the gasoline by the engine for maximum power. High compression engines MUST have slower, more controlled burning to develop their maximum power.

                            Contrary to popular belief, using a higher octane gasoline, (Note: added for clarity), in modern engines does NOT control/reduce engine "spark knock". It DOES in our older engines using carburetors, and here's why.....

                            Carbs. cannot regulate the air/fuel mix going into the engine as accurately as computerized fuel injection systems. Also, carburetors need regular adjustment and usually these adjustments are not made regularly, causing too much fuel to be mixed with the air. When this happens gasoline does not burn completely, it "soaks" or remains wet and un-fired in the combustion chambers
                            Sonny
                            http://RacingStudebakers.com

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

                              Greetings, All,

                              Sonny is our main man over at Racing Studebakers and I agree with him on most everything. However, I'll respectfully disagree with adding diesel fuel. I have not found it to do anything positive to reduce ping. I'm willing to learn, so Sonny, give us some scientific sources to read up on and the rationale if diesel is beneficial, why aren't the manufacturers adding it from the get-go?

                              thnx, jack vines

                              PackardV8
                              Hey Jack!

                              You're our main man too, and I love ya just like my very own brother! I agree with you, completely! Heck, I never thought that diesel would reduce ping, don't remember ever saying it did. In fact, here's what I said last year, (keeping in mind that this post was addressing fuels in general, along with the benefits of mixing diesel in particular.) Oh! Spark knock = ping

                              [quote]quote:Originally posted by Sonny on 07/31/2006 : 7:57:40 PM "
                              .........I didn't want to get into the scientific comparison of gasoline and diesel), comparing an octane rating (gasoline) to a cetane rating (diesel), couldn't be further removed, (VERY apples and oranges....). Not trying to be a know-it-all, or mean spirited about it, but it takes some knowledge of the unique properties of these, actually very different, fuels to understand their ability to work together.

                              For public information, and ONLY as a classification/qualification of these fuels, a cetane rating is considered the diesel equivalent to gasoline's octane rating. However, unlike an octane rating, which rates gasoline's resistance to spontaneous ignition, the cetane rating number (usually 40 to 55 for medium to high speed engines) notes the ease with which diesel fuel ignites. Bottom line, the higher the cetane number, the fuel ignites easier, the higher the octane number, the fuel ignites harder.

                              Highway vehicles use the diesel classifications, 1D and 2D, the main difference is viscosity and pour point, (1D during cold weather is thinner and 2D during warmer weather, thicker). A 2D fuel is preferred always because it has a higher viscosity and pour point. The higher viscosity provides better lubrication qualities for the moving parts of the diesel engine's expensive and complicated fuel injection system. Because 2D fuels contain more Btu's per gallon, they are able to deliver more power per gallon. This is critical to diesel engine power and economy. The higher the BTU rating a diesel fuel has, the greater power yield per gallon; thus, higher power begets better economy.

                              Now, concerning higher octane rating, the slower the burn when ignited during the compression burn cycle of the piston allows for better control of burning for high compression engines. So, the idea of "octane rating" is to be able to match the correct gasoline to a particular engine design to ensure complete burning of the gasoline by the engine for maximum power. High compression engines MUST have slower, more controlled burning to develop their maximum power.

                              Contrary to popular belief, using a higher octane gasoline, (Note: added for clarity), in modern engines does NOT control/reduce engine "spark knock". It DOES in our older engines using carburetors, and here's why.....

                              Carbs. cannot regulate the air/fuel mix going into the engine as accurately as computerized fuel injection systems. Also, carburetors need regular adjustment and usually these adjustments are not made regularly, causing too much fuel to be mixed with the air. When this happens gasoline does not burn completely, it "soaks" or remains wet and un-fired in the combustion chambers
                              Sonny
                              http://RacingStudebakers.com

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                quote:
                                Hope I've made it clearer..
                                Clear as Bunker A..... [)]


                                1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                                1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
                                [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
                                [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
                                [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
                                [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
                                1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                                1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                                1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                                1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                                Comment

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