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Truck Starter: Now I'm really confused!!!

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  • Electrical: Truck Starter: Now I'm really confused!!!

    I have a somewhat stalled engine project that I would like to get back on track. After over 40 years of puttering around with my 1955 E5 six cylinder truck, I have decided to install a correct (looking) V8. Rather than gathering parts, and charging into my truck hoping for the best, I decided to build an engine test stand. The purpose was to check out the V8, run it, tune it, tweak it & making sure it was OK before daring to approach my truck with a wrench.

    The engine I've settled on is a 1957 truck 289. I purchased it in good faith as a rebuilt engine that was intended for use in a truck from a member who unfortunately did not live long enough to install the engine in his project truck. I guess you would call it a "long block," since it had heads, valve covers, intake manifold, water manifold/pump, distributor, etc. However, there was no flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, or,bell housing. Last spring, I got the engine mounted on my fabricated test stand.

    From a 1955 parts truck I have, I robbed the bell housing, flywheel, etc., from the 224 V8. I dial indicated the bell housing and everything has bolted up just fine. I have the six volt starter off the parts truck as well. I could get the starter to spin, but without replacing or rebuilding, I'm pretty sure it will be a NON-starter.

    So I dug out my trusty parts manual and began trying to understand how to go about determining how to buy another starter to replace this one. Good grief! I think I'd make a lousy parts guy at a sales counter who looks this kind of stuff up every day! I had no idea there were so many starter variations between models. I keep reading things like, "see note #22." After several minutes of looking for note #22, finally, my eyes focused on a small print at the bottom of the page reading "notes on page 13." So, I thumb over to page 13, and find note #22 reads "same as note #21." (so why didn't it merely say see note 21 to start with?) Of course, note #21 tells you either before or after certain model serial numbers, and so now I will have to trudge between buildings to track down numbers on different components of a disassembled vehicle.

    Instead, I think I'll bring the starter I took off the 224 engine, that worked with the flywheel I installed on the 289, to the York swap meet. If any of you, that are coming, have a six volt V8 starter you think will work, bring it along & perhaps we can match them up and make a deal.

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    If you look at the pic with the brush dust cover slid open, you'll see a great deal of green corrosion. And, that is after I took a blow gun and blew out all the debris. I'm amazed that I was able to get the starter to turn at all! The bendix has 9 teeth. Also, I have been told that the 6 volt V8 engine flywheel had a different number of teeth than the 12 volt units. So, if I stay with the six volt flywheel, I'll either have to stay with the six volt starter...even if I later convert the system to 12 volts.
    Last edited by jclary; 03-05-2017, 01:30 PM.
    John Clary
    Greer, SC

    SDC member since 1975

  • #2
    I think since you have the engine out, you could replace the Flywheel with the fine toothed 12 Volt '56 to '64 V8 one, and have much less hassle.
    In fact if that '55 Flywheel is capable of handling a 10 1/2 Inch 259/289 Clutch, just heat and remove the 6 Volt Ring gear and Heat and install the 12 Volt Ring Gear, presto, magic, all fixed!

    Then when you go to York you can buy the proper 12 Volt Man. Trans Starter, most of the Parts Catalog "Serial Number Changes" confusing you, are merely just Brand changes, Delco to Autolite/Prestolite.

    John, does all of your Parts Truck and Parts stash include the hard to find 4 Cast Iron 4 Inch tall Front and Rear Engine Mount "BRACKETS"?

    I hope so, because you WILL need them for your V8 Truck Conversion.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 03-05-2017, 03:11 PM.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner
    SDC Member Since 1967

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah Rich, I have all the front & rear engine mount brackets.

      As an option, I'd consider buying a 12 volt flywheel with starter ring & a proper starter to go with it. While I'm not above doing some of the more technical procedures you suggest, I don't want to push the envelope of my mechanical experience too far (especially at my age.)

      The more "bolt together" & easier I can make it...the more likely it will get done.
      John Clary
      Greer, SC

      SDC member since 1975

      Comment


      • #4
        In or near most Larger Cities there are Machine Shops, or Welding Shops with Brick Ovens for Cast Iron Welding or at least a Torch, to heat and R&R these Ring Gears in a few minutes, no need to stress yourself.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner
        SDC Member Since 1967

        Comment


        • #5
          FWIW, I used the 6-Volt V8 starter on 12-volts for many years with no problems. This assumes an electric fuel pump and everything else new and in good tune, so the engine starts right away. The good news is the 6-V starter spins really fast on 12-V, so starts should be instantaneous. Your opinions and results may vary.

          jack vines
          PackardV8

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
            FWIW, I used the 6-Volt V8 starter on 12-volts for many years with no problems. This assumes an electric fuel pump and everything else new and in good tune, so the engine starts right away. The good news is the 6-V starter spins really fast on 12-V, so starts should be instantaneous. Your opinions and results may vary.

            jack vines
            Good points Jack. That's why I'm mainly wanting to find a working starter for the flywheel I already have bolted up. If I'm not successful, there's always the option to have this one rebuilt. Having a spare is never bad either. Today, I laid out two other spare V8 starters next to this one. All three are different.
            John Clary
            Greer, SC

            SDC member since 1975

            Comment


            • #7
              Joe used the 6 volt parts off the original 224 in his truck when he changed to the 289. It works fine on 12 volts also.
              "In the heart of Arkansas."
              Searcy, Arkansas
              1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
              1952 2R pickup

              Comment


              • #8
                You could always use one of the new gear drive high torque mini starters from Fairborne Then use one of these gears to make it work with your older 6 volt flywheel.
                Bez Auto Alchemy
                573-318-8948
                http://bezautoalchemy.com


                "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

                Comment


                • #9
                  Running a 6 volt starter on 12 volts should cause no problem More starters are burnt up from low voltage rather than High the six volt starter has heavier gauge wiring than the 12 because there is less amperage to loose on a 6 volt system.
                  Hawkowner

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                  • #10
                    Joe said to remind you to use V-8 springs on the truck. He had issues with some weak springs causing the fuel pump to rub somewhere. He installed new V-8 springs and solved the problem.
                    "In the heart of Arkansas."
                    Searcy, Arkansas
                    1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
                    1952 2R pickup

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 52-fan View Post
                      Joe said to remind you to use V-8 springs on the truck. He had issues with some weak springs causing the fuel pump to rub somewhere. He installed new V-8 springs and solved the problem.
                      I have wondered about that. I have the V8 parts truck & those springs look (although a bit rusty) to have a good arc to them. I have never measured them and wondered if they will fit the existing spring hangars on the six cylinder trucks chassis? I suppose another option would be to add leafs to the existing spring sets. Thanks for the reminder.
                      John Clary
                      Greer, SC

                      SDC member since 1975

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jclary View Post
                        I have wondered about that. I have the V8 parts truck & those springs look (although a bit rusty) to have a good arc to them. I have never measured them and wondered if they will fit the existing spring hangars on the six cylinder trucks chassis? I suppose another option would be to add leafs to the existing spring sets. Thanks for the reminder.
                        Probably. The early 2R5/10 trucks used front springs with both spring eyes above the spring. All the later ones had one spring eye above and one below, and the shackles were modified accordingly. After that, there were no differences between the shackles used on V8 and 6-cylinder trucks within a given year. Since your truck is an E5, you should have no problems.
                        Skip Lackie

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Skip...with the credibility/respect I regard your comments...that's reassuring.
                          John Clary
                          Greer, SC

                          SDC member since 1975

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK, I've just come in the house after spending time prepping my Dodge Ram for the trip to York. Last week, I put new brake pads on all four corners (it was due), & today, cleaned inside glass, installed fresh windshield wipers, etc.

                            It just dawned on me, that besides a starter, I could probably use a good functioning distributor for my truck engine project. Some of you swear by the electronic converted units, and I've heard the testimonials. However, I'm not experienced with them, and for now, only want to use what I am comfortable with.

                            Problem is, I have not bought one (of any kind) in years. I have very little grasp of what a realistic price would be for a complete working distributor. Good used, NOS, or rebuilt...anyone care to enlighten me? If I find one at the swap meet, I'd love to have a realistic basis from which to negotiate. This engine is a 1957 or '58 289.

                            The distributor that is in it now is dirty, cracked cap, and looks mainly to have been stuck in there as a "hole filler." If I ever get to the "crank & run" stage, a good distributor sure would make it simpler.
                            John Clary
                            Greer, SC

                            SDC member since 1975

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks, but you must have me confused with someone else . . . .

                              Anyway, depending on the year of your parts truck, it MAY have different front springs, left and right. In other words, mark them before you take them out.
                              Skip Lackie

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