Does anyone know of a source for "Production Build" specs.

[SergioG]

Hi, I came across a very good set of manuals for Mopar cars a few years ago called..."Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth Body of Knowledge (VB-4)" Which can be found here - (http://shop.mmcdetroit.com/products/...cle-build-vb-4).

That said, I know this is a Studebaker forum and not a Mopar forum, but the reason I bring up these manuals is because they're GREAT for understanding how the factory "actually" did things while they built these cars. As we all know, theory is not always carried out 100% in practice and the Studebaker factor floor may have done things a bit different than a Shop Manual (which I have) might have indicated. What the author of these manuals did was to research things like; where stickers where placed - (i.e. at what dimension from a specific reference pint were they placed.) What type of information "Tags" contained from the factory floor...etc. On the Mopar cars that was important, because they had so many different stickers, tags, markings, etc and they all had a method to their madness.

So, my question to the forum is -- Does a similar reference manual exist for Studebaker? - An example of why I would want to review such a reference is that I am refurbishing my carburetor's air filter housing. I purchased the original sticker from S.I. -- so, my first question was -- where does it go - is it towards the top, towards the middle or near the bottom? - I know I can Google 100 picture of air filters like mine...but are those correct? Is that where the factory actually placed that particular sticker? --- Or did they even have that kind of quality control back then? - (I would assume so, based on some of the things I've read about Studebaker). - I know its a bit anal, but if you're trying to refurbish back to factory specs, I think knowing such minor details is important (at least it is to me.)

My bet is that such references don't exist for the Studebaker aficionado, but heck...I may be pleasantly surprised to find out they do.

If you know of any resource that would offer such "detailed" information, I would be very grateful if you could share.

As always, thank you for your help!

[TWChamp]

Who ever restored my 1950 Champion 23 years ago put a lot of money into it buying NOS parts, etc., so I can only assume they got the decals correct. All these decals were in place except the oil bath air cleaner had none when I bought the car. When I was at SI a couple years ago I didn't recall what my neighbor's air cleaner decal looked like, so I bought one of each style. I finally got around to installing it a couple months ago, and used my neighbor's original unrestored 1950 Champion for the correct decal and placement.

The copper line by the blower motor is so I can monitor the fuel pump pressure as I experiment with various ohm resistors to find the best one to keep my 12 volt Holley pump at about 2 1/2 lbs. The oil fill cap should be engine green, and I will repaint it once I find a good match for the green paint.

[tim333]

Great pics TW, I just bought a 51 Land Cruiser, they may be helpful for me also.

[Dwain G.]

TWChamp........I had two questions about your engine compartment. One you just answered (yes, it has an electric fuel pump). Also, is that a brake fluid reservoir on the left inner fender aft of the battery?

[Mark L]

Sergio, I'm not aware of a single manual for all Studebakers like you describe, but there are three things which might be helpful.

First, the engineering drawings for the parts and assemblies would describe how things should have been. They are stored in the Studebaker National Museum archives.

Second, several members of the club have produced "authenticity guides" which describe how the cars looked when they were new. As an example, members of the Avanti Owners Association International created an incredibly detailed authenticity guide for the Avanti. Avanti owners can now compare their cars to the guide and see what is original or has been altered, modified, or repaired over the years. This is particularly helpful when the goal of a restoration is to make the car look like new.

Third, some accessories sold by Studebaker had installation templates associated with them. The templates were used to help identify the correct placement of the accessory on the car.

For those of you who are show judges, what information do you use to determine authenticity?

[hausdok]

I asked the same question here a few times after I got my PH in 2011. I'd been seeing cars at some meets where two identical models sitting side-by-side had differences in types of bolts used, application of undercoating, etc. I had hoped to get the answer here. I don't remember anyone ever really answering those queries.

I'd recommend just finding a car that's identical by model and year to your own, and has already been restored and judged at a meet and found to be extremely accurate, and then just take your digital camera, notebook and pencil and start taking picture of that guy's car and making lots of notes.

[RadioRoy]

Be sure to find out if the restoration is accurate, as Hausdok said.

Restored is a nebulous term. Sometimes an expensive restoration will have many authenticity mistakes. Then, others will copy those mistakes on their own cars, thinking that the expensive restoration was accurate for no other reason than that it was expensive and it looks good.

Examples: In Northern California in the 70's and early 80's someone restored a 50 Rambler convertible and put a plaid interior in it instead of the correct stripes. My GF at the time was an upholsterer and everyone wanted her to redo their Ramblers with plaid. They refused to listen to the idea that stripes were correct.

Many Studebaker 47-51 convertibles have been restored with incorrect zip out flaps for the rear window - probably more than have been restored with the correct rear window attached directly to the top.

And we can go around and around about the rear fender welt that is supposed to be painted body color, too. ;(

Most/many people go with what they like and don't bother taking the time to research what is authentic. They go with what looks good to them at the time, which is not always authentic. An authentically restored car, with the correct colors, fabrics, screws, and stitching will never go out of style like cars built to the latest fads will.

Did anyone see the Avanti with the flared wheel wells in the videos of 70's car shows that have been circulating? It might have been really cool then, but how does that Avanti look to everyone's eyes now?

[TWChamp]

TWChamp........I had two questions about your engine compartment. One you just answered (yes, it has an electric fuel pump). Also, is that a brake fluid reservoir on the left inner fender aft of the battery?

Yes, that is one convenience item the restorer added 23 years ago, to make checking and filling brake fluid easy. I wouldn't have added it, but since it was there when I bought the car, I'll just leave it.

[studegary]

[QUOTE=Mark L;1042266
For those of you who are show judges, what information do you use to determine authenticity?[/QUOTE]

I was the SDC authenticity judge for the C/K Division for many YEARS. I used my memory. Before deducting any points, I asked the owner to justify/document the item that I deemed to be incorrect. I believe that those that have known me for 40 or more years can attest to my knowledge about these models and my fairness in judging.

[RadioRoy]

[QUOTE=Mark L;1042266
For those of you who are show judges, what information do you use to determine authenticity?[/QUOTE]

I have judged 50 and 51 at many meets, both zone and International. I have been lucky enough to own several original 50 and 51 cars, some even with original paint jobs, so I have a good idea how they originally came.

[SergioG]

Hello Mark, ALL excellent suggestions and I never thought of the engineering drawings and much less to ask the Judges what they use as reference...VERY good idea.

I think I can find resource #1 in your suggestions, but how would I find item #2 for the Champions?

I've come across some of the template you mentioned in resource #3, but that would be a challenge find the accessory templates for each application you might have to work on.

I'm definitely going to look into your suggestions - THANK YOU!!!

[SergioG]

Hello RadioRoy, please allow me to ask...when you Judge a vehicle in whatever category it may be entered into, do you go to the extreme detail of ascertaining whether the decals are in the correct locations, or is that something that doesn't play a role into your evaluation?

Also, when you say you've judged 50 and 51, what model would that be...all models?

[SergioG]

Hello RadioRoy, you are SO spot on in your post above. Your observations are exactly why I asked the question. Although I'm not an absolute purist in the sense that I wouldn't add safety equipment to one of my cars (I would), but I personally like to keep the cars as authentic as possible. If I want to drive a car the has an airplane like computer, I'll jump in my wife's Land Rover. These vintage cars have a special look and feel the makes them just what they are - vintage classics. Therefore, in the process of restoring the vehicle, I try to pay close attention to details such the proper fasteners, where decades where placed, the proper color used on parts, wire color, etc. That (IMHO) is what makes these cars what the classics that they are.

Unfortunately, a lot of people rush to the end to get their cars finished. They lose sight of the fact that the journey to that end is what makes this hobby so rewarding!

I'm glad to find a group of folks that are so dedicated to their cars and their hobbies as I've found here on the SDC. -- Congratulations to you ALL for your dedication!!!

[SergioG]

Hi StudeGary, cudos to you my friend! My memory is not what it used to be....LOL! I also think that although memory (based on experience - in your case 40 years) is great, but do you every get to a point where you say to yourself..."Hmmm, I need to verify that." If so, then how do you perform the verification? What resource do you use?

[SergioG]

Hi TWChamp, VERY, VERY nice...!!! Most of the air cleaners I've seen are much like yours with the decade at the upper section. I really like Mark's suggestions about the engineering drawings - very cleaver! I think the is as close to what I'm seeking as I'm going to get. The other really good suggestion is Mark's second suggestion regarding "authenticity guides." Those as long as they're accurate, are ideal. I'm going to look into both.

Thank you for your pictures!