Bearing Failure Two

[Anne F. Goodman]

Ok I brought this thread up again because David just took the engine out of the Hawk. The knock that it had we had to know just what was going on. Well it turns out that # 8 cylinder wall was worn weird allowing the piston to flop around in there. Well when he tore it down there was only 70 miles on the new bearings they the rod bearings looked like 100,000 mile bearings. These were Federal Mogul. The block is at the machine shop as we speak. The block will be .030 for pistons and rings the crank will turn to .010/.010. Where can I get Bearings and pistons that I can trust. I don't want to rebuild this engine another time in my lifetime. All suggestions would be appreciated. Hopefully someone out there has some NOS ones that they would be willing to sell. Let me know ASAP.
Thank You

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca

[StudeRich]

Ask David if the wrist pin lock bolt was properly seated in wrist pin on the bad piston/rod assembly.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

[StudeRich]

Ask David if the wrist pin lock bolt was properly seated in wrist pin on the bad piston/rod assembly.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

[Anne F. Goodman]

Rich he says yes.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca

[Anne F. Goodman]

Rich he says yes.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca

[rusty nut garage]

Is this the engine that got hot several times as a result of blown freeze plugs?

quote:Originally posted by Anne F. Goodman

Rich he says yes.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[rusty nut garage]

Is this the engine that got hot several times as a result of blown freeze plugs?

quote:Originally posted by Anne F. Goodman

Rich he says yes.

Mabel 1949 Champion
1957 Silverhawk
1955 Champion 4Dr.Regal
Gus 1958 Transtar
1955 President State
Fresno,Ca

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[laughinlark]

I don't know what to say. Unless federal mogul changed since my last rebuild in late 01. After the machine work I looked at the box of parts and laughed because of all the different brands of parts. The cam and rod bearings were federal mogul. The crank was polished because it was within spec. That was over 100,000 miles ago that I put on the engine. Its my daily driver/race car.

Gordon

[laughinlark]

I don't know what to say. Unless federal mogul changed since my last rebuild in late 01. After the machine work I looked at the box of parts and laughed because of all the different brands of parts. The cam and rod bearings were federal mogul. The crank was polished because it was within spec. That was over 100,000 miles ago that I put on the engine. Its my daily driver/race car.

Gordon

[Dwain G.]

I know you guys verified good oil pressure on both these engines, so I won't ask. I could understand bearing failure in a few thousand miles if the bearings were made from a very low quality babbit, but to fail in under 100 miles and show that kind of wear, I would definitely have the oil tested for the presence of a foreign abrasive.


Dwain G.

[Dwain G.]

I know you guys verified good oil pressure on both these engines, so I won't ask. I could understand bearing failure in a few thousand miles if the bearings were made from a very low quality babbit, but to fail in under 100 miles and show that kind of wear, I would definitely have the oil tested for the presence of a foreign abrasive.


Dwain G.

[bams50]

Let me preface this by re-stating my lack of experience with Studebakers specifically. I do have extensive experience with non-Studes, though- both road and racing use.

That said, I have to say that I in my experience with bearing failures I can't think of ONE time I, or my engine builders, put the blame on the bearing itself. Here are the most likely causes of bearing failure, in no particular order:

1. Improperly prepared crankshaft
2. Improperly prepared connecting rod(s)
3. Wrong bearing SIZE
4. Incorrect torque procedure
5. False torque due to worn/stretched/damaged used bolts
6. Failure to carefully check size/clearance (plasti-gauge)
7. Oil starvation
8. Excessive overheating
9. Improper internal cleaning
10. Oil contamination by gas (from flooding)
11. Oil contamination by anti-freeze (i.e. head gasket falure)

There are other less-likely causes; piston-to-head interference, egregiously defective lubricant, and low-quality bearings... but while possible, the odds of these things being the cause of failure are VERY small!

Here's a big problem across the entire spectrum of internal engine repair: Engine internals appear simple and straightforward, but this is not the case! It looks like unbolt, clean, add new parts, bolt together, done. But I tell you- working inside the bottom end of an engine is not for the novice. It's far too easy to make the smallest mistake that won't show up till some time down the road... I've successfully assembled dozens of engines myself, but still am uncomfortable trusting myself to repairing the rotating assembly... for example, how many know that you are NEVER to put your fingers on the bearing surfaces because the oil from your skin could affect the bearing? You always handle them carefully by the edges only! My father, a brilliant mechanic, was incredibly anal when he did an engine, auto trans., or carb rebuild- he had a special, extremely clean room for assembly, and insisted on no distractions during!

I bet the majority of the bearing failures we see are not due to the bearings- really a simple item when you really think about them. Just about always, one of the above items are the cause.

Maybe Nimesh or another of our expert builders will disagree about the bearings based on solid, scientific proof. If proof exists, that would be good to know.

Until then, mark me skeptical

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

[bams50]

Let me preface this by re-stating my lack of experience with Studebakers specifically. I do have extensive experience with non-Studes, though- both road and racing use.

That said, I have to say that I in my experience with bearing failures I can't think of ONE time I, or my engine builders, put the blame on the bearing itself. Here are the most likely causes of bearing failure, in no particular order:

1. Improperly prepared crankshaft
2. Improperly prepared connecting rod(s)
3. Wrong bearing SIZE
4. Incorrect torque procedure
5. False torque due to worn/stretched/damaged used bolts
6. Failure to carefully check size/clearance (plasti-gauge)
7. Oil starvation
8. Excessive overheating
9. Improper internal cleaning
10. Oil contamination by gas (from flooding)
11. Oil contamination by anti-freeze (i.e. head gasket falure)

There are other less-likely causes; piston-to-head interference, egregiously defective lubricant, and low-quality bearings... but while possible, the odds of these things being the cause of failure are VERY small!

Here's a big problem across the entire spectrum of internal engine repair: Engine internals appear simple and straightforward, but this is not the case! It looks like unbolt, clean, add new parts, bolt together, done. But I tell you- working inside the bottom end of an engine is not for the novice. It's far too easy to make the smallest mistake that won't show up till some time down the road... I've successfully assembled dozens of engines myself, but still am uncomfortable trusting myself to repairing the rotating assembly... for example, how many know that you are NEVER to put your fingers on the bearing surfaces because the oil from your skin could affect the bearing? You always handle them carefully by the edges only! My father, a brilliant mechanic, was incredibly anal when he did an engine, auto trans., or carb rebuild- he had a special, extremely clean room for assembly, and insisted on no distractions during!

I bet the majority of the bearing failures we see are not due to the bearings- really a simple item when you really think about them. Just about always, one of the above items are the cause.

Maybe Nimesh or another of our expert builders will disagree about the bearings based on solid, scientific proof. If proof exists, that would be good to know.

Until then, mark me skeptical

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

[jnormanh]

I've never rebuilt a Studebaker engine, but I have done British and Japanese engines. In the Case of British, the original bearings, usually Vandervell, will run 100K miles under good conditions. There are also some horrible aftermarket oriental bearings, real junk, but even those will run 30K miles.

For new bearings, even low quality ones, to fail in a few hundred, or a few thousand miles, there must be something very wrong - a catastrophic lubrication failure. Plugged up oil galleries? Grinding swarf left in the crank?

In a Studebaker, can you install the mains with the wrong half shell in the block so the crank gets no oil?

[jnormanh]

I've never rebuilt a Studebaker engine, but I have done British and Japanese engines. In the Case of British, the original bearings, usually Vandervell, will run 100K miles under good conditions. There are also some horrible aftermarket oriental bearings, real junk, but even those will run 30K miles.

For new bearings, even low quality ones, to fail in a few hundred, or a few thousand miles, there must be something very wrong - a catastrophic lubrication failure. Plugged up oil galleries? Grinding swarf left in the crank?

In a Studebaker, can you install the mains with the wrong half shell in the block so the crank gets no oil?