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6hk71400
08-23-2016, 09:25 AM
Is this Holiday Red which is listed for 1947 Studebakers?

http://sierravista.craigslist.org/cto/5721335859.html

I have been in contact with the owner via email a couple of times. I did look at the youtube video that is 15 seconds long and the engine was running. I asked about the 12 volt battery; he said PO had converted to 12 volt with alternator but radio did not work and he did not know about the overdrive. Car ran off gas can.

I know what most would do is pass this car over: too many doors, itsa champion, blah blah blah. But it could be a fun car that the only show it would be involved is going to the store and people see it. It is also cheap!

So back to the question: is this Holiday Red? I may drive to see it, as the car is about an hour away from Tucson

Bob Miles

Sdude
08-23-2016, 09:45 AM
4 doors is not a bad thing any more. Especially when it involves suicide doors. I get more positive comments than negative when it comes to that. Buy it, drive it to your local all makes car show and watch what kind of attention it gets. And Champion is a good name for a car; we just finished the Olympics....

Not being the iconic bullet nose makes it even more unique, be prepared to tell most folks what it is. And you can tell them it's Holiday red, only the experts on this forum would know if that was true or not.

6hk71400
08-23-2016, 09:57 AM
"First by Far with a Postwar Car" Since both my projects, Lazarus and Meshach are a long long way off from running, this car would be with little work a running car. Sone one liked the car enough to buy in new and drive it with probably kids in the back seat.

Thanks Jon for your thoughts.

Bob Miles

jclary
08-23-2016, 10:11 AM
Could be... In my avatar, and signature pic, you can see my 1948 Business Coupe. It is Holiday Red. I was engaged in the restoration of this car while the local BMW Manufacturing Plant was being constructed. During that time, I was spending a lot of time with BMW selling equipment for their operation. Much of my work, and equipment went into their paint shop. Representatives of BASF and PPG corporations were also involved. The BASF guy took a sample of the Holiday Red to their Laboratory and computer matched it to a 1970's Ford Maroon, that was used on their trucks. That was in the early 1990's. I'm not sure if I can locate the specific code, but that is how I was able to closely replicate the color in a modern, durable, paint formulation.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2967&d=1366219325

6hk71400
08-23-2016, 11:17 AM
Nice Picture! Still in touch with the owner and seeing about driving down to see it. I figure for $1,500 I can't go wrong although my wife may disagree. She does ride in a Studebaker when it is safe and running and has been doing it for years.

Thanks John

Bob Miles

Hallabutt
08-23-2016, 02:18 PM
It looks goo to me, it deserves some love!

Studebakercenteroforegon
08-23-2016, 02:21 PM
PM sent.....

StudeRich
08-23-2016, 02:50 PM
The Body does not look bad on the outside, it looks like it has had a "Restoration", so I would guess the Paint is a somewhat close to original re-paint, but I would not count on it being a perfect match and of course it has faded many years.
You can clearly see the complete Interior is all re-upholstered and re-Painted Red instead of the original Tan or Gray.

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/jconln/HPIM0372-2.jpg This looks correct to me, and as you can see, it may called Red as Avantis were, but it is Maroon.

In John's Side view of his Business Coupe, the direct, bright Sunlight almost makes it look dark Red, but it is not.

The '47 4 Door in question has had many later model Stude "upgrades besides the 12 volt System. it has later 5 Lug Drums, Wheels and Hubcaps and maybe Brake upgrades! :!:

6hk71400
08-23-2016, 08:12 PM
I had not looked at the wheels but I did see the later caps. I went back to the pictures and it looks like Ford Ranger wheels. I am not sure if they are 5 lug or 4 lug. Anyway, I may be taking a trip on Thursday. He works at home but is gone in the afternoon 2-4. I will take a close look, especially since he did state there was rust.

He likes early Abody mopars, and could also use a 89-91 honda civic/crx. mopar 360 engines and 727 transmissions. Guess I could look for those on CL but get a feel for what he would like. Any penny saved is more for the 47. If I get her, I would name her Judy Holiday because of the color and the fact she wasn't "Born Yesterday";)

Bob Miles

6hk71400
08-25-2016, 04:50 PM
Took the trip down to where the car is located. The floors/trunk are solid; the only rust was under the left rear window with bubbles but no showing holes. It has Ranger/Mazda wheels that are 4 bolt so the car retains the original Champion brakes. From what I hear the short time it started was no knocks or any noise and a very smooth running champion six.

The car has been converted to 12 volt with an alternator. It has a junction box on the firewall with modern fuses. I looked down and saw the kickdown switch is still on the throttle linkage but not wired up. The owner wondered what that was and a few other things about the car. It does not have a climitizer. He was in Southern California years ago and bought the car from the grandson of the original owner. It is showing 90K on the odometer which I believe is probably accurate. The owner had been driving the car but now it is sitting.

He brought out the production order. The original color was Navaho Tan:(, not Holiday Red. He did say in the emails $1,500 firm but then when I talked to him he said he thru out $1,500 to see what is out there. He has several different cars including a 1987 Dodge GLH.

Not sure what I am going to do but again, it would be a cheap knock around car once I got all the tinkering down. It also depends on when a friend of mine gets back from the mountains with his Dodge Dually Turbo Diesel and trailer. It is a 140 mile round trip.

Bob Miles

jclary
08-25-2016, 06:00 PM
Great update, Bob. About that paint. Will it clean up, or does it need a re paint? Did the engine bay, door jams, etc., get painted? In practical terms, the original color was probably a good choice under the Arizona sun. But, it will be your car, your project, and I'll not attempt to influence what you do. The only caution, don't be surprised, if the, assumed, "Knock Around"...develops into a serious "full blown restoration.";):ohmy:

That's what happened with my Business Coupe. I bought it cheap, and had every intention of making it a "fishin" car. But, everything I "tinkered" with, exposed several more things that needed serious attention.:( Mine had obvious rust, but much more hidden stuff. Being that this car was in the "land of no rust," you have a much better starting place than I did.:) By the time I got mine back on the road, six years of tinkering had passed.:) In fact, that was 22 years ago, and I'm still tinkering.:p

I hope you are successful in negotiating a price that leaves you and the current owner happy. As long as you keep your expectations reasonable, regarding a 69 year old sedan, and enjoy tinkering...this could be a blast. Hope you get it.:)

6hk71400
08-25-2016, 07:32 PM
Thanks John,

I think the paint will take a shine and the very small areas that have "bubbles" I could show as a badge of honor. Here is a car that was kept in the family for many years and now owned by a guy that admits he will not do anything with it.

My question is: on the early Champions the brakes leave much to be desired. For that matter so do the Commanders ( I have owned 2 48's a 2 door sedan and a Land Cruiser) How hard is it to change over to the later model brakes? I know the 51-53 models are a direct bolt on but not sure about the 4 lug to 5 lug brakes. Any one done the job?

I will resist the temptation for a flow blown restoration.;) When you have two projects that are that way now, not that hard to resist:rolleyes:

As far as getting the car, couple of things have to happen first but I am sure I will probably get it. Usually the cars other than the 50-51 Champion is not high on the Studebaker chain and the small town the car is located is usually not a destination but an area to pass thru on your way to someplace else. Where is it at is not visible from the road; in other words you have to know it is there to find it.

Bob Miles

Hallabutt
08-26-2016, 03:41 AM
Bob,

I have trouble remembering why, probably spindle size, but not the same ease of changeover to the newer style brakes. Come to think of it that was a Commander.

6hk71400
08-26-2016, 11:10 AM
I think you are right. I did have 2 48 Commanders and Jim Turner said with a spindle he can make brakes to fit. I will check later with him after he has recovered from his recent surgery. I also have heard that if you use a later master cylinder from 55 up to 60 on cars and any Hawk will improve the stopping effort. I know when I drove the Commanders, you had to allow plenty of distance and time to stop, and with the way most drive that is not always the situation. People love to zoom around an older car and cut off in front of you. That even happens when I drive my 97 Olds 88 doing the speed limit.

Bob Miles

6hk71400
08-29-2016, 04:49 PM
I am getting closer to ownership. I have found something he may want to trade. Three way win, owner wants it gone, it is a cheap price for me to buy, and Champion owner very interested.

I will keep you posted.

Bob Miles

Lark Ken
08-30-2016, 02:40 AM
Go for it man! Don't be waiting on your friend to get back. I you can strike a deal and get the man paid he might be open to storing the car for a few weeks if needed.

mbstude
09-01-2016, 04:55 PM
RE, the wheels.. They sure look like the stock artillery wheels that Champions used during that era.

https://images.craigslist.org/00Q0Q_1MQhCCWjc3n_600x450.jpg

6hk71400
09-01-2016, 07:55 PM
Thanks Matt. It seemed like they were wider but now not so sure. They later Lark hubcaps fit very tight; the owner never had the caps off and had to work at prying one off. You are probably right. I should have looked closer at the tire size. i was just glad to see they were holding air!

I will keep everyone posted; still leaning on a trade for low$$$.

Bob Miles