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BobPalma
06-22-2016, 01:18 PM
:QQ: If a picture is worth 1,000 words, here's 4,000 of them.

As offered for the money shown at a large, multi-make car show on Fathers' Day 2016:

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF69501_zpsfaydg4x3.jpg (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/BobPalma/media/DSCF69501_zpsfaydg4x3.jpg.html)

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF69521_zpsumpcu50w.jpg (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/BobPalma/media/DSCF69521_zpsumpcu50w.jpg.html)

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF69531_zpstw9d8qpl.jpg (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/BobPalma/media/DSCF69531_zpstw9d8qpl.jpg.html)

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the Nova's structural integrity, given their flimsy unibody design to begin with...with the rust shown?

No matter, you'll have plenty of time to think about it while replenishing your savings: :QQ:

http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss155/BobPalma/DSCF69511_zpsdke81jrq.jpg (http://s571.photobucket.com/user/BobPalma/media/DSCF69511_zpsdke81jrq.jpg.html)


:whome: Now, 'spare me the lecture of how much a top-flight 1963 Nova SS Six convertible (because a V8 wasn't available in 1963) is "worth" when done, versus the "worth" of a 400-point 1963 Lark Daytona V8 convertible. :yeahright:

I can't imagine it costing much more to restore the Lark if it was as rough as this Nova...heck, maybe even less. And when both cars were done, I'd bet they'd sell within $1,000 of each other. Heck, the Lark might even sell for more, since it could be a V8. :D ;) :cool: BP

studegary
06-22-2016, 01:43 PM
Just a couple of evenings ago, I thought about the son of the lady where I lived in 1961-1962. He came out of the service then and purchased a new Nova convertible. We had a lot of fun in it. Girls seemed to be attracted to it.

Back to the subject car. To me, it doesn't look too bad. I didn't check, but there are probably a lot of NORS panels avilable for this car or you could use a donor two door sedan or hardtop.

For an "OBO" asking price, I do not think that it is out of line if this is what you are looking for (not me). I think that you better recheck your restored value for this car versus a Studebaker.

Pop's Chariot
06-22-2016, 01:52 PM
I have owned each nova convertible a 1962 and the 1963 SS plus many other 1st Gen. Nova's I finally threw in the towel they are really just a cheap throw away car. Lark's are 10 times the car without even getting into the $$$ aspect of either. I do still like the Nova's styling however and the Hardtops are really sharp!!! but still truly just a cheaply built car. Knowing what I know now? I Lust for a JTS Lark.

8E45E
06-22-2016, 01:53 PM
I recall seeing a fair amount of those around at one time, including a family who lived two blocks to the east of us who owned one.

They were certainly never 'rare' like a Daytona convertible of the same year would be. What does your book tell us for production numbers?

Craig

Mike Van Veghten
06-22-2016, 01:56 PM
Bob -

Interesting that a well designed, "non-framed" car is as strong if not more so that many "framed" cars that have less designed bodies..!
Many of the American cars fit that bill, Chevy II's, Nova's, Mustangs, Darts, etc. Even the lowly Vega (body wise !) was done fairly well.
Fact not hearsay, look it up.

I, as well as many other east coasters have seen the damage corrosion does to...framed cars, as well as non-framed cars..! But yes, in this case, a non-framed car may not last as long as a framed car on the east coast with the salt both on the road and in the air for those living near the ocean.

Mike

BobPalma
06-22-2016, 02:02 PM
They were certainly never 'rare' like a Daytona convertible of the same year would be. What does your book tell us for production numbers? Craig

There is no breakout for SS versus "regular" 1963 Nova convertibles, Craig.

The numbers are:

24,823 1963 Chevy Nova convertibles

1,015 1963 Studebaker Lark convertibles

:cool: BP

swvalcon
06-22-2016, 02:48 PM
Bob Hagerty old car guide shows the 63 Lark Daytona convert with v8 worth $23,600 and a nova 400 convert with a 6 as $16,300. not quite the same car but close. I would think about the same cost to restore maybe a little higher on the lark as chev mechanical parts should be less as most fit all Chevy's. and should be a large supply of body parts as most body style novas parts interchange.

clonelark
06-22-2016, 03:11 PM
they are really just a cheap throw away car.


I thought the same thing when i was into 64-67 Mustangs.

jclary
06-22-2016, 03:21 PM
My answer to your original question is on my cap;)...

http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/jconln/CAP.jpg

BILT4ME
06-22-2016, 03:54 PM
Mind you, it's still sitting there for that asking price.... It did not actually SELL for that number.

I saw many similar on the Power Tour. Many want them because it is so easy to drop in a crate Chevy engine with minimal modifications, a 700R4 (or better) and a heavier rear axle from a different Nova and you've got a real power house. It's not my cup of meat, but I like Different By Design!

Bill Pressler
06-22-2016, 05:31 PM
Speaking personally only, I always liked the '65 by far the best of that first Chevy II styling, and there were potent V8's available from the factory by that time.

Being into Studes for a long time now, I'm always surprised at how goofy the competition looks today...I'm talking early '60's compacts. Like this Chevy II, most have a lot of fussy trim down the side, and most have small rear wheel openings, which to me date the styling. This Chevy II has small front wheel openings too IMHO.

And a '63 Lark instrument panel is much nicer-looking. Of course I realize that is a subjective opinion.

sals54
06-22-2016, 07:18 PM
But...But...But... The latest craze in turning big profits in the resto mod world is to transplant a potent LS power plant into a car like this Nova and do the rest of the car as essentially stock. I would bet that an LS powered Nova Convertible would sell for far more than any 400 point Daytona Lark Convertible. It may not be fair, but thats the world we live in.

swvalcon
06-22-2016, 07:27 PM
All the old cars where throw away cars. They wanted them to rust out and wear out about every 5-7 years so you had to buy a new car. That's how all manufactures intended to stay in business.

StudeNewby
06-22-2016, 07:38 PM
But...But...But... The latest craze in turning big profits in the resto mod world is to transplant a potent LS power plant into a car like this Nova and do the rest of the car as essentially stock. I would bet that an LS powered Nova Convertible would sell for far more than any 400 point Daytona Lark Convertible. It may not be fair, but thats the world we live in.

How about apples to apples: drop a LS into the Lark. How would they compare now?

(Personally I would rather have a stock Lark, and I did, but I'm just wondering.)

BobPalma
06-22-2016, 08:03 PM
But...But...But... The latest craze in turning big profits in the resto mod world is to transplant a potent LS power plant into a car like this Nova and do the rest of the car as essentially stock. I would bet that an LS powered Nova Convertible would sell for far more than any 400 point Daytona Lark Convertible. It may not be fair, but that's the world we live in.

:!: Agreed, Sal. But how's about we drop a genuine R3 in the 400-point Lark and see what that combination would bring? ;)<GGG> :cool: BP

sals54
06-23-2016, 12:29 AM
How about apples to apples: drop a LS into the Lark. How would they compare now?

(Personally I would rather have a stock Lark, and I did, but I'm just wondering.)

I guess thats my point. The audience for a Lark in any condition, is small. While the fans of the Novas is HUGE. Lots of folks like their Chevys and Fords. Its how they fit in with the "crowd". We on the other hand have never felt the need to fit in with the crowd. We like to stand out on our own.

sals54
06-23-2016, 12:31 AM
:!: Agreed, Sal. But how's about we drop a genuine R3 in the 400-point Lark and see what that combination would bring? ;)<GGG> :cool: BP


Bob, on that point, I would have to agree. But while it will bring good money, the buyers will still be a rather small bunch. While the buyers for the Novas spans the country and the globe. Now we just have to head on down to the pick n pull and grab that R3 engine out of that rusting old Lark.

packardHawk58
06-23-2016, 04:06 AM
:!: Agreed, Sal. But how's about we drop a genuine R3 in the 400-point Lark and see what that combination would bring? ;)<GGG> :cool: BP
Watch what you say Bob, you might get Ed going again!

Two years ago shipped two 64 Nova's coupes for a buddy of mine which he bought for 28K the pair.
He cleaned up the worst out of the two and on sold it for 30K.
I personally don't like them, they look like a loaf of bread on wheels.
By 66-67 the design became better, rather have a 64 Lark Convertible any day of the week.

TWChamp
06-23-2016, 04:17 AM
That looks like a price from "Back to the 50's" cars. I was there on Sunday, as it's only about 15 miles away and Sunday is the swap meet day.
I always wanted a Corvair Rampside, but not the yellow and white one I saw there for $23,500.

StudeNewby
06-23-2016, 06:38 AM
I guess thats my point. The audience for a Lark in any condition, is small. While the fans of the Novas is HUGE. Lots of folks like their Chevys and Fords. Its how they fit in with the "crowd". We on the other hand have never felt the need to fit in with the crowd. We like to stand out on our own.

Sal, you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. For the life of me I cannot understand the "I'm gonna drop a chrome crate in it and go to the show and look like everyone else" mentality!

8E45E
06-23-2016, 06:42 AM
I guess thats my point. The audience for a Lark in any condition, is small. While the fans of the Novas is HUGE. Lots of folks like their Chevys and Fords. Its how they fit in with the "crowd". We on the other hand have never felt the need to fit in with the crowd. We like to stand out on our own.

A Canadian Pontiac version would stand out at a show: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?61525-Orphan-of-the-Day-05-09-1963-Pontiac-Acadian

Craig

Cowtown Commander
06-23-2016, 12:16 PM
Based on my expenses on my 1938 Coupe that has been under restoration for 5 years, I do not think there is any money to be made on a Chevy, Studebaker or most any car in that condition. Even those that can do all of the work themselves it appears to me that the expense of parts, materials & plating is such that from an economic standpoint either buy a car that someone else has done or buy a drivable car and leave in survivor status.

Hallabutt
06-23-2016, 02:17 PM
Bob's original post "why do we restore Studebakers." Restore means to return something to it's original condition. No 1960's car with an LT1, LS3 or any other later incarnation power plant in it is "restored."

Restoration costs are so high, and market prices for the average collector car are so depressed, when compared to what they once were, that a restorer has to be lucky to break even on his investment. This doesn't just apply to the restorer, but also applies to the street rodder and customizer as well. With very few exceptions there are few Studebaker models that the restoration costs can be sustained by the car's market value. This can probably be said for most marques as well. So anyone looking to make money in our hobby had better stay away from any car that needs a restoration!

Since "restoration" is almost a sure money loser, there has to be other reasons that we restore. I am dragged along by my emotions. Each car that I have saved, refurbished or restored has spoken to me in a different way. Sometimes it's sentiment like my father's last car, or a car like my 1967 Camaro that I had driven 175K through the late 60's and 70's, or my 1931 Four Seasons that I have always believed to be Studebaker's high water mark. Never once was cost or time invested ever a major consideration. Once the emotional choice was made, it was just figuring out what it was going to take to finish the car. The hobby and the market may have changed, but nothing has changed for me in the last fifty plus years of doing what I do. My age is certainly a limiting factor, but the mindset remains the same. I just have adjust and find other ways of getting it done! Excuse the personal whimsy but the hobby has helped to define my life and I'sure not going to change now!

Andy R.
06-23-2016, 03:54 PM
The appeal of this car over a Daytona will diminish as the generation who enjoyed these in their youth die off.
Once my generation (X) hits retirement age, I predict a leveling off of sorts. When the "memories of Dad, etc..." factor becomes more distant and less sentimental, the cars will be judged more by their own condition and merits. There will be more restored and well-preserved cars coming into the market as their "industrial age" owners part with them or us, so yeah, patience should pay off and even things out a bit.

To wit: A close friend with a creampuff '62 Falcon Futura Hardtop couldn't believe how much more solid, smooth and "grown up" my Daytona Wagonaire drove. After a two-day trip in the Wags, she said her car felt like a tin can on wheels.

Heck, even in the 80s when I bought my first Studebaker (1962 GT) for $3000, the other car in the running was a nice '57 Olds Rocket 88 4DHT for $2500. It was all about the car, not the market. As we know well, the best way to keep the market strong for Studebakers is to give others first-hand experience with them - they sell themselves (and ourselves) pretty well.

sals54
06-23-2016, 05:48 PM
The appeal of this car over a Daytona will diminish as the generation who enjoyed these in their youth die off.
Once my generation (X) hits retirement age, I predict a leveling off of sorts. When the "memories of Dad, etc..." factor becomes more distant and less sentimental, the cars will be judged more by their own condition and merits. There will be more restored and well-preserved cars coming into the market as their "industrial age" owners part with them or us, so yeah, patience should pay off and even things out a bit.

To wit: A close friend with a creampuff '62 Falcon Futura Hardtop couldn't believe how much more solid, smooth and "grown up" my Daytona Wagonaire drove. After a two-day trip in the Wags, she said her car felt like a tin can on wheels.

Heck, even in the 80s when I bought my first Studebaker (1962 GT) for $3000, the other car in the running was a nice '57 Olds Rocket 88 4DHT for $2500. It was all about the car, not the market. As we know well, the best way to keep the market strong for Studebakers is to give others first-hand experience with them - they sell themselves (and ourselves) pretty well.

Excellent point Andy. I've made that case myself in the comparison to the 55-57 T-Bird prices. That generation is done buying those cars. You can still get a very nicely restored 55-57 TBird for about $25-30K. That price has been stagnant for at least 10 years, if not longer. The 60s cars are next. Look back at most of the cars from the 30s and 40s. Unless you have an extremely rare or desirable model of any of those years, your restoration costs have gone down the toilet. I had a 1941 Buick Roadmaster Phaeton with a straight 8. I watched the prices on those cars go up up up for a decade. Then in the late 90s, they crashed hard. The muscle cars had taken over the market and have stayed King of the Hill ever since. THey too will crash, though. Its only a matter of time. Someday, a lot of guys holding a lot of muscle cars are going to see their valuable collections vaporize.