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View Full Version : Sound deadening in Golden Hawks...was it standard??



Mark Klinger
11-30-2015, 11:41 AM
Our 1957 Golden Hawk has sound deadening material on both the passenger compartment floor as well as the forward portion of the trunk floor. It's about 1/4" thick and glued down, not jute but a denser material. Was this a standard offering on the Hawks, I've never seen it mentioned before. Or was it only available on the 400's?

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StudeRich
11-30-2015, 05:35 PM
If the floors look the same as the Trunk it is probably someone's "Improvement".

That Trunk Mat and wall lining looks like a '57-'58 Packard, they must have really dolled up this GH.
So it is actually a rare 400 Model then?

Mark Klinger
11-30-2015, 05:48 PM
If the floors look the same as the Trunk it is probably someone's "Improvement".

That Trunk Mat and wall lining looks like a '57-'58 Packard, they must have really dolled up this GH.
So it is actually a rare 400 Model then?


So I guess the sound deadening isn't standard but was it included in the 400 package?
I'd like to think it's one but the juries still out. It would be nice to hear from the owner of an original, unrestored 400 to compare notes. The interior appears to be the original fit (but differs from the prod. order) and carpet which is also correct to the 400 model as well as the 58 PH. Richard Quinn has confirmed that it appears to be done at the factory but it was not marketed as a 400. It's a big mystery so far.

jclary
11-30-2015, 06:21 PM
Well Mark...From the earliest days, especially after wood framing and wooden floors were replaced by all metal bodies, all Studebaker models (and probably all other brands as well) got some kind of sound deadening treatment. Widely used was a putty like material called dum dum, that was used as a combination sealer and sound deadener. If you remove a headliner, usually you will find a kind of tar-like material slathered along the underside of the metal roof. Same in the "reach-in" access openings of door assemblies, side panels, etc. Even the undercoating applied to firewalls of pickups, under floor pans, etc. served a sound insulating function. Mostly, the material was rather unceremoniously slathered into areas out of sight. In the trunk, under the deck lid, and areas where it could be seen, usually more care was taken in the application. Like anything else, I'm sure the quality and extent of the sound deadening effort varied from the lowest price model to the highest.

I know that here in our local BMW plant, the bare chassis is submerged in an anti-corrosion E-Coat bath, then goes to various sealer application stations for seam sealer, cavity sealer, underbody sealer, before it sees the first coat of primer. It has been a while since I've been in their body shop, but back when I was calling on them, they used a material similar to what you have in your trunk floor. It was laid in place and heat formed to body panel contours. I can tell you that it does wonders for a rattle prone 1948 Champion Business Coupe.

During the early days of plant start-up, I was privileged to assist in the training of new employees while the plant was being constructed. One of the execs took pity on me drooling over scraps of that sound deadening material and tossed some in my truck instead of the dumpster.;)

StudeRich
11-30-2015, 06:58 PM
Yeah but John, it looks like Mark is talking about Padding, a black felt like carpet Padding you see in his Trunk, not undercoating, not sound deadening.
I don't have a GH 400 but as I said, it is likely "Owner applied".

bezhawk
11-30-2015, 08:06 PM
It looks like the standard TAR PAPER that was used on my Packard Hawk. Yes, the Packards, had extra sound deadener and also on the floor boards. One would assume that the Golden Hawk 400s also would have that too.
That, however doesn't look like the factory applied method. It would be painted over or at least have overspray on it, then the trunk liner was installed

alaipairod
11-30-2015, 08:24 PM
Sound deading materials were not a priority with Studebaker...just like rust prevention......The "Bean Counters" deemed these issues an unnessary expense to make a profit on their vehicles.......Nothing holds water.........Like a Studebaker............

Mark Klinger
12-01-2015, 09:51 AM
It looks like the standard TAR PAPER that was used on my Packard Hawk. Yes, the Packards, had extra sound deadener and also on the floor boards. One would assume that the Golden Hawk 400s also would have that too.
That, however doesn't look like the factory applied method. It would be painted over or at least have overspray on it, then the trunk liner was installed

TAR PAPER is probably the best description, but it's much heavier than something you'd put under your roof shingles. Your observation about the lack of overspray fits right in with the theory of this interior being installed post production line but at the factory after the car was painted. And the same product is installed in the passenger compartment on the floor boards. Thanks for your input everyone.

swvalcon
12-01-2015, 01:45 PM
I've worked on several hawks and never seen this on any of them.

studegary
12-01-2015, 02:27 PM
I've worked on several hawks and never seen this on any of them.

This means nothing relative to this topic, unless you worked on a GH "400".
I have owned and worked on many Hawks, but never a GH "400". I did do restoration work on a Packard Hawk, but I do not remember this detail.

karterfred88
12-01-2015, 02:59 PM
The white lines on the black tar paper/felt are telltale markings of roofing material, used to line up shingles. I suspect it was added well after production. It would cause me to inspect the floor area from under the car, could have been used to disguise floor repairs.

swvalcon
12-01-2015, 03:24 PM
Studegary I don't think this is a GH 400 but still doubt this is factory sound deading and pretty sure was added sometime latter.

Mark Klinger
12-01-2015, 04:28 PM
The white lines on the black tar paper/felt are telltale markings of roofing material, used to line up shingles. I suspect it was added well after production. It would cause me to inspect the floor area from under the car, could have been used to disguise floor repairs.

The GH has 53,000 original miles and has no rust to speak of considering it's origins in the Chicago area. Floors are solid and appear to be original when viewing from under the car. The o/o did do a number of modifications, added 58 PH chromed taillight bezels, spare tire on trunk lid, spotlights, chromed air cleaner and valve covers so I guess it's possible this was added as well. If Bezhawk's Packard Hawk has the same material then this could be from the factory.
Still looking for that unrestored 400 owner, or any 400 owner for that matter, to make some comparisons. In talking to Tom Lawlis he seemed to think it was original to the 400's, not that this is one.

t1003nl
12-01-2015, 05:57 PM
Does the original post show the stock trunk mat configuration for a standard '57 Golden Hawk? Should the sides of the trunk have the mat material or just the floor? I thought the standard Golden Hawk trunk was painted gray regardless of body color and the floor was covered by a hounds tooth pattern mat. Is that correct?

thunderations
12-01-2015, 07:58 PM
Kinda off topic...............kinda on.
Just parted out an original, 54,000 mile 1950 Champion Starlight Coupe. Car was extremely rusty to the point of the frame having large holes in it.
However when I removed the near perfect firewall pad, low and behold, 40 Lb.roofing paper stuck between the firewall and pad, probably a part of the pad, but stuck to the firewall. The white lines still very visible and ready for a row of shingles.
OK, now back your scheduled topic, trunk padding in a Hawk.

acolds
12-01-2015, 10:47 PM
My 57 Clipper has the tar paper like material on the trunk floor and floors even under the back seat bottom the rear wheel wells inside have thick green pad also on them I know the Clippers had more insulation than Studebakers to approch the sound level of a Packard over a regular Studebaker

RareBird
12-02-2015, 10:30 AM
I found it in my Packard Hawk as well. Mine all original, so it had to be
factory.

Mark Klinger
12-02-2015, 04:35 PM
I appreciate everyone's observations and comments. Standard in Packards, the "upscale brand" and not in Studebakers, at least in the Hawks. The green padding looks like a jute material used to give extra padding to the carpet, mine doesn't have that. Add the tar paper to the 400 features that are on the car, it had to have been converted in South Bend. Just where is the elusive paper trail? :confused:

alaipairod
12-02-2015, 09:23 PM
The bottom line is that after 50 plus years, any padding, insulation, or whatever is long gone.
The evolution of wear, tear, and deteration of such materials begs for upgraded products that are offered on the market today.