Wheels / Tires: Ford wheels on '64 Hawk and Avanti, disc-brake rims

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Some of the 1989-97 Ford Thunderbird aluminum wheels are very good looking, plentiful, and cheap. But, do they bolt on properly on a '64 Hawk or '64 Avanti? I assume that they are 4.5" bolt pattern, like Studebaker: correct or not? Also, they look like they have more negative offset than Studebaker 15x5" disc-brake rims, although I don't have one yet to measure. Will I have to use spacers? The rims I am considering are 15x6.5" from the '96-7 TBird.

On another note, it has been stated on the forum that Studebaker used 15x5" disc-brake rims on Avantis and Avanti-powered Larks and Hawks. (Non-Avanti-powered Larks and Hawks with disc brakes used 15x4.5" disc-brake rims.) As much as we would like to think that Studebaker always did the right thing, as far as I know, even Avanti-powered Larks and Hawks with disc brakes also used 15x4.5" rims. At least, that's been my experience. What say y'all? Thanks,
-studedwight

[studegary]

Welcome to the SDC Forum!

Related to this question - With the use of any Ford rims on a Studebaker, be sure to use Ford lug nuts. The overall size of the Studebaker lug nuts is too small and will eventually pull through.

I bought a 1989 Thunderbird new and kept it for 14 years. I owned many Studebakers during that time. I never thought of swapping wheels or even checking to see if they fit.

[karterfred88]

For some reason all the sites I visited show the 96 Bird wheels as 5 on 4.25 wheel bolt circle??? I was under the impression that Ford always used 5 on 4.5 ??????
Actually 3 sites, tirerack, goodyear and ?? all listed it as 5 on 108 mm which = 4.25 weird!!

[Alan]

5 on 4.25 was Dart, but I have seen 5 on 5 and 5 on 5 1/2" on Fords. Too bad you were not closer. We could pop one on the tire machine and see if they will fit.

[1oldtimer]

I had 90's bronco II steel wheels on my '60 lark when I bought it. I switched to turners disc kit and the 15x6 rims with a 4" backspace hit the calipers. A 1/8" spacer was needed to clear.

[bezhawk]

By the way, if you see any rims listed as 114.3 mm, that is also 4.5"

[tim333]

I need two wheels for my 63 R2 Hawk, front power disc brakes, what wheels would interchange / fit?? Thanks Guys.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Thanks for the welcome to the Forum. I have been a Studebaker fan since the 1960's, but new to the Forum. I have two '64 Hawks (white R1 4-spd, Bordeaux Red R1 PowerShift), and a '64 Avanti (retrofit R3, 4-spd).

A little info for tim33: 1) Ford 15x6" steel wheels from Crown Victorias or Mercury Grand Marquis fit perfectly on the disc-brake Studes without any interference. My brother and I have used these on our Avantis since the late 1960's. Ford & Mercury station wagons used 15x6.5" wheels if you want wider wheels. Both of these should be widely available at wrecking yards. 2) If you want original Studebaker wheels seek out the '63-4 Avanti 15x5" disc-brake rims rather than the 15x4.5" disc-brake rims, which are too narrow for safety.
-studedwight

[Hawklover]

Dwight, I remember the 'clone' R-3 you were putting together about 25 years up at WCD Garage...sadly there were major problems with the Lionel Stone R-3 heads and intake as I remember:-( I do remember you tossed a ton of cash at that car....how did it turn out??

Thanks for the welcome to the Forum. I have been a Studebaker fan since the 1960's, but new to the Forum. I have two '64 Hawks (white R1 4-spd, Bordeaux Red R1 PowerShift), and a '64 Avanti (retrofit R3, 4-spd).

A little info for tim33: 1) Ford 15x6" steel wheels from Crown Victorias or Mercury Grand Marquis fit perfectly on the disc-brake Studes without any interference. My brother and I have used these on our Avantis since the late 1960's. Ford & Mercury station wagons used 15x6.5" wheels if you want wider wheels. Both of these should be widely available at wrecking yards. 2) If you want original Studebaker wheels seek out the '63-4 Avanti 15x5" disc-brake rims rather than the 15x4.5" disc-brake rims, which are too narrow for safety.
-studedwight

[studegary]

By the way, if you see any rims listed as 114.3 mm, that is also 4.5"

That reminds me that I have a set of 114.3 X 5 lug X 16 inch in my garage. They are the original seven spoke alloys off my 2001 Acura CL. I haven't tried them on a Studebaker.

[tim333]

Dwight, what year Fords and Mercs?

[Dwight FitzSimons]

1) The wheels we were using on our Avantis in the late '60's were from full-size Fords of the era. We ordered them new from a tire dealer and they fit fine. I have a set of 15x6" Ford steel wheels on my current Avanti that came off a '80's full-size, RWD Ford and they fit well and have about the right offset. The full-size, RWD Ford/Mercury/Lincoln cars were built up until about 2011. I'm not sure whether the wheels for these cars were ever changed in their vital specs (4.5" bolt circle, center hole size, offset), or when. When I go to a wrecking yard I always take a piece of cardboard onto which I have scribed the lug holes and center (using a Stude rim). I put that behind behind a candidate wheel to check the bolt pattern and center hole size. That method hasn't failed me yet.

2) It was a sad tale of incompetence with Lionel Stone's oil pumps that damaged my R3 engine....twice, no less. The first oil pump seized due to insufficient clearance between the gears and end plate. If memory serves me, steel grows at about half again the rate of cast iron, and, as the engine warmed up, the gears expanded more than the cast-iron housing and pressed against the end plate of the oil pump and locked up, starving the engine of oil. The second oil pump, another Lionel Stone R3 repro, literally broke, again starving the engine of oil. This was because a standard housing had gotten mixed up with the longer R3 housings, and was machined the greater depth for the longer R3 gears. This left the cast iron housing too thin and it broke after about 500 miles. There are no other Lionel Stone parts on my engine; if there were I would remove and bury them! It is an original R3 engine (#B69), with original R3/R4 heads, intake, carb, etc. As I recall, strangely, it was shipped new from STP in Des Plaines, IL, not Paxton Products in CA.

[Hawklover]

1) The wheels we were using on our Avantis in the late '60's were from full-size Fords of the era. We ordered them new from a tire dealer and they fit fine. I have a set of 15x6" Ford steel wheels on my current Avanti that came off a '80's full-size, RWD Ford and they fit well and have about the right offset. The full-size, RWD Ford/Mercury/Lincoln cars were built up until about 2011. I'm not sure whether the wheels for these cars were ever changed in their vital specs (4.5" bolt circle, center hole size, offset), or when. When I go to a wrecking yard I always take a piece of cardboard onto which I have scribed the lug holes and center (using a Stude rim). I put that behind behind a candidate wheel to check the bolt pattern and center hole size. That method hasn't failed me yet.


Dwight the problem with using Ford rims is the fact the center hub hole is a bit too large.......which means the five lug nuts are 'tasked' with holding that wheel on the drum!!......on Mopar rims, the center hub hole is smaller.....and hugs the drum tighter....so from a safety stand point much better....the lugs are not doing all the work!!

[tim333]

See post #2, use Ford lug nuts with the Ford wheels.

[Hawklover]

Tim the lug nuts are not the question........the Ford wheel does not fit SNUG around the Studebaker drums hub area...so the lugs be it Ford or whatever do all the work....on the Stude and MoPar rims, the hole in the wheel for the hub is smaller and thus fit tighter.

See post #2, use Ford lug nuts with the Ford wheels.