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Hub questions: anyone know of shop that swages studs? And best way to fit bearing race?

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  • Wheels / Tires: Hub questions: anyone know of shop that swages studs? And best way to fit bearing race?

    Hi,
    got two very nice condition used hubs for my NOS 11" brake drums, and a set of new studs and Timken bearing sets from SI.
    The little town where I live has an old auto repair shop (3rd generation), and always has 40s-50s cars in there from the area, so assume they would have the 'old time' equipment to swage in my new hubs and studs (see photo of original swaging on my original drum, and my new 'just tapered and pressed together" fit on the new ones.
    Misunderstanding; they didn't have a tool to do that, but don't think it is a problem, 'those studs will never come loose, I promise you". I have done business with him for years, good mechanic... probably right, but I would still like them swaged like the originals if possible :-). Do any of you Minnesota folks know of anyone in the metro St.Paul area that still does that?
    Question #2: I brought my new Timken bearing races/cones with, so they could 'touch up' the NOS drum and true it (it was almost perfect, barely touched it they said; this with drum and hub just pressed together as shown). BUT, one of the hubs turns out to have a slight issue; the OUTER cavity for the bearing race is about .015-.020" larger than the bearing race. I measured vs my old drums and the OTHER new one, and the Timken race is correct, my hub cavity is just slightly oversize, so the race can be put in and out by hand, no press fit. What is the best way to correct for this? The mechanic said to just prick lightly around the inner diameter of the drum, just to keep the race in place (once it is together, no issue" though I certainly wouldn't want it to ever start spinning instead of the bearings! ;-) Thought I might put a dab of Loctite around it at the same time as pricking for 'interference' as insurance against that. Thoughts? Thanks.Click image for larger version

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  • #2
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    For the studs, could you tack weld the studs to the hub to keep them from spinning and let the drum slide over the studs (like the Chevy's)?
    Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
    1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

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    • #3
      Thanks, was your inner hub larger AT THE BOTTOM then, from spinning? Weird thing about this one is it seems to be about 1.800" all the way down the ID; race pushes right in to the bottom by hand (and pulls out by hand the same way :-). So, I wouldn't need my bearing press, I'd assemble the old bearing, on the spindle, and tighten it up to center while it dried.... I know for my Model-A Ford, the rear bearing races CAME with a small Loctite squeeze tube to smear around them upon installation.... (maybe for differential banjo...)
      Regardless, glad to hear it worked for you.
      I wonder if Timken makes the same bearing race except .020 oversize? Might have to call; hub measures 1.800 vs my other hubs at 1.780". Strangely 'even' numbers..
      Re: wheel studs, that isn't a bad idea... Would rather the drum never come off, want to keep it on same position it was 'trued' at (I know, I could prick it to mark both parts). But, something to think about. Better than having the studs start turning when taking off a wheel (which two of my originals did when I started this project; they were installed wrapped with electrical tape; no kidding! :-)

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      • #4
        Boy that's a tough on. As far as I know, all correct front bearing races only come in the stock diameter. If it were me and no other good hub were available, since .020 is quite a lot, I would consider having it machined true and square to .021 +/- and, using shim stock of 022, to make a sleeve to fit in it and then gently press the standard race into the hub. I'm pretty sure the wheel won't come off due to the race being loose, but keeping the wheel from shimmying might be tough. Of course the best way would be to find a totally undamaged hub and recycle yours. I would think you can find some on here. The swaging is to hold the drum centered on the hub, won't help keep the studs from spinning. There is no "centering ring" machined into the hub, the factory aligned the hub center and the drum, swaged the studs to hold the drum in place, as you have apparently already done, unfortunately, to the bad hub. Better to remove the new swages, put the good drum on a good hub and redo. If carefully done it won't "use up" the good drum by returning it. Sorry for your bad luck.

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        • #5
          Hi guys; carefully considered both perspectives. Researched Loctite and JB Weld, they actually make products FOR bearing races to prevent spinning, and specify how much 'gap' they'll fill.... But with a 20mil oversize (has to be a factory screw-up, to perfect a hole and exactly 20mils over the original 1.780" hole (vs 1.781" bearing cup OD).... Figured I could pool that in the hub, set the Cup in it and screw down the bearing and let it cure.
          But, after sleeping on it, Just not comfortable, with a car I'll actually DRIVE at highway speeds (it has a supercharger for Pete's sake!) vs my Model-A Ford.... riding on 10mils of some epoxy (or my kids 30 years from now, hopefully). I'm sure the odds are high it would work just fine, but I've got it all apart, now is the time to do it right I guess.

          So, I'm going to see if my buddy has another good hub (this one was in every other way...; I just screwed up and never thought to check THAT important aspect of the bearing area! ;-( I wonder if some kid in South Bend forgot to change the boring setting or something from a truck or other 1.80" ID, said 'oops', and sent it down the line anyway. :-) 20mils is too even to be coincidence.

          I looked at the one 'worn out' drum/hub I have, and wow, they really ARE a job to remove the swage (without that special cutting tool), and unless my friend comes up dry, will try to avoid doing that. I assume "un-doing' the new setup from yesterday will ruin the new studs and the INNER bearing cup, by act of removing them, but at least those are not expensive parts.
          Oh well, live and learn.

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          • #6
            What I have done to save a hub like this is, bore it oversized then press in a sleeve. The sleeve is then bored to accept the bearing cup and seal. The initial bore is a little deeper to leave a step in the sleeve so there is no way the sleeve can come out while the bearing cup is in place. Neal

            As far as "prick-punching" to make the hole smaller, it is a temporary fix at best. I have had to fix that kind of repair in my shop.
            Last edited by Neal in NM; 09-18-2015, 02:37 PM.

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            • #7
              Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
              1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

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              • #8
                Most good machine shops should be able to un-swage your old hub/drum assembly and then swage your hub onto the new drum. There is a machine shop near me that can do that job, and I assume that most well equipped machine shops can do the job. It is just that most repair shops or parts stores that can turn drums, don't have the equipment to swage the hub/drum assemblies.
                Lew Schucart
                Editor, Avanti Magazine

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                • #9
                  Twin City Brake and Equipment or Minneapolis Brake and Equipment (forgot the exact name) is the place to go. They have the equipment and know how to use it. They swaged my Model A brake hubs and studs.
                  If fact I need to go there later today to buy some bubble flare brake line to replace the rusted lines on my 1999 Olds 88.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks!!! I vaguely remember hearing about them at the Twin City Model A Club...., exactly what I was looking for. Just could not find any reference by googling them. Knew there was (or USED to be) someone in the Twin Cities!!
                    Good luck with the Olds!

                    Originally posted by TWChamp View Post
                    Twin City Brake and Equipment or Minneapolis Brake and Equipment (forgot the exact name) is the place to go. They have the equipment and know how to use it. They swaged my Model A brake hubs and studs.
                    If fact I need to go there later today to buy some bubble flare brake line to replace the rusted lines on my 1999 Olds 88.

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                    • #11
                      Yep, Minneapolis Brake & Equipment, just north of 280 and I-94...
                      Went over Friday, huge place, found my way back (with shopping carts provided!) with my parts to talk to a certain machinist, and he took over.
                      I thought I was doing a good thing (vs my local shop) by carefully wire-brushing off any paint/primer on both mating surfaces of hub and brake-drum, as it seemed that would be a source of misalignment and potential wheel wobble. HE is going to actually machine all four surfaces to face them off and not take any chances, and then put them together and lock them in place by swaging the studs...

                      I don't know how, he didn't answer me, but he recognized them as Studebaker hubs... (didn't anyone else have 11" drums?) don't look different to me). But he was most interested to learn the name of my source for NOS Stude parts, so maybe he is a Stude fan as well, just not very talkative.

                      Oh, I DID get another GOOD hub to replace the 'oversize ID" that originally got assembled. (now thinking that MAY be for an earlier model per my friend; 20mils over-size too even to be factory mistake, got him thinking....). I mounted a tire on the spindle chucked up (on old king pins) in my vice, checked runout and wobble with an indicator, (before taking to Mpls Brake), and not 'bad', but as soon as I take it apart, the drum comes off the hub, and I could see scraps of paint and debris in there, don't like it, eventually reassembly will be 'off' and it will wobble, so decided to track down someone to swage them together permanently per the original design. Will check THEM out when I get them back and update results here. I brought my new brake shoes (and NOS rear drums) along, just to have him tweak for arc-ing, though from my check they are mostly pretty close; if he ends up turning the drums any more they may not be and need to be tweaked. I did my own for my 'A, but if you already have all the parts at a pro shop.... well.

                      Unfortunately, not even this ancient place has the equipment to BALANCE drums anymore, so I'll have to crudely do that (statically, on my vise / spindle setup). Just letting the NOS drum/old hub combo sit on looser bearings, it would always slowly spin around to where the factory weights were 'down'.. So I know I can do better than they are, at least get it to where they 'sit where I leave them". The tire and wheel are so much larger diameter I know they will dominate balance, but will do the best I can since I know they are off.
                      I kind of enjoy this part of the restoration, even though 'frustrating', or I'd simply have gone off looking for another 'really good' front drum as was recommended. :-) Pressing bearings in and out, DOING things... and improving things, that is what I like. Body work and cleaning/priming/painting... THAT is the stuff I wish I had a kid or wife who LIKED to do that... BUT, in this hobby, in for a penny, in for a lb. Can't all be fun and games. :-)

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